Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about SIL and DS1's Bris (circumcision) ?

999 replies

imlikeaironingboard · 25/10/2011 01:05

I'm Jewish (Liberal) and DH counts himself as secular Jewish (as does all of his family).
His DBro (my BIL) married out - not a 'big' thing with them due to the whole non practicing/secular thing.

I'm due to give birth to DS1 (DC2) in a week.

They do not have children and it is only DH and BIL as siblings. our DC1 is a DD.

Both DH and BIL are circumcised.

She told us tonight that she would not be coming to DS1 Bris. The idea of doing that 'disgusts' her.

AIBU to be really upset and to think that she should have realised that marrying into a jewish family secular or not would mean that these sort of things would happen?

This has really really upset me - I have never got a hint of her feeling like this before.

OP posts:
WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 27/10/2011 17:28

hardboiledpossum I remember that. That was awful!

onagar · 27/10/2011 17:29

FlangelinaBallerina thank you for clearing that up.

WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 27/10/2011 17:33

frankie3 How on earth can you compare circumcision with an assisted birth! You say "an uncircumcised penis looks unusual to me!" and that all your male relations are circumcised . . . it sounds as though you have chosen to do it to your sons for asthetic reasons. Wow . . . to put them through surgery which someone else just pointed out is responsible for more then 117 US deaths a year just so it looks better (in your eyes). Amazing!

Moominsarescary · 27/10/2011 17:40

I think if you are bought up with it then it is normal to you, like I've allready said earlier I didn't realise it would be such a painful procedure for my ds ( medical reasons ) it was only after and weeks later I realised how painful it actually was. A baby can't tell you when two weeks down the line it hurts or itches so for all those who say it never hurt their babies how do you know realy?

Reading this thread has made me understand that if your bought up in a religion where this is normal and being around men who have all had it done and see no problem with it will make you feel differently than I do

Hopefully in the future more people will choose not to have their sons circumcised and it will become acceptable, as some posters have stated it is in their community's

MrBloomsNursery · 27/10/2011 17:57

I'm having my son circumcised. This thread has done nothing to change my mind or see it as a vile or barbaric thing. The hostility towards parents who choose to circumcise their children I've seen on here, is just disgusting. I can't believe that some of you people may be health professionals or people who work with families and children of all races and religions. Is this how you would react if your patient/client told you they had their child circumcised? Just complete uncalled for hysteria, and ignorance of other people's beliefs.

FlangelinaBallerina · 27/10/2011 18:07

I'm astounded that people who choose to cut bits off their children's genitals because they think God told them to have the brass fucking neck, the sheer gall, to complain about being judged for it. You're lucky that's all that's happening to you!

As for ignorance, I for one know exactly what the religious reasons are. I just think this particular belief is repulsive. You may disagree with what I think, but you cannot get away from the fact that I hold this view whilst in a position of knowledge, not ignorance. Don't tell me you think that if we could all just understand, we'd agree!

PosiesOfPoison · 27/10/2011 18:12

Well good for you MrBloom, thoroughly enjoy celebrating severing that poor little boy, celebrate his lack of pleasure during sex for life and give yourself a good old pat on the back when he cries with pain as his penis is cut. Good for you for standing by this tradition and not letting your child's right to choose, mental well being or physical pain put you off.

I for one will be signing a petition to get it banned and made illegal.

Manathome · 27/10/2011 18:13

I personally feel that mutilating a child who has no choice in the matter is barbaric and should have no place in this country at all. Religion is an excuse for a lot of evil things and would want no part of it either, it should be outlawed in this country!

PosiesOfPoison · 27/10/2011 18:13

And for anyone that has done it to their child, expect to be judged harshly.

PosiesOfPoison · 27/10/2011 18:14

I'm just popping upstairs to punch my kids in the face just once, after which they'll need bathing and soothing ointment for a couple of weeks.

God told me too.

FlangelinaBallerina · 27/10/2011 18:19

In that case Posies, nobody is allowed to judge you for it. It would be ignorant and hysterical of them!

Manathome, that's a bit silly. People do bad shit to each other for a lot of reasons, if it isn't religion it's something else. Religion isn't even the only reason why people unnecessarily remove parts of their children's genitals. I know plenty of religious people who don't harm anyone else in their belief. Unfortunately, as this thread proves, there are also some who do.

Malificence · 27/10/2011 18:25

Our hostility is disgusting? That's rich.

It's child abuse that is truly disgusting, ritual circumcision has absolutely no place in a civilised society, the quicker it goes the way of foot binding / selling your daughter off at puberty/ sending them up chimneys etc. etc. the better.

Doing something just because you believe it will please/appease some random deity is utterly ridiculous.

mathanxiety · 27/10/2011 18:25

I am the non-Jewish mother of a DS circumcised shortly after birth in a US hospital (and haven't read the last 9 pages of this). I wear earrings and sometimes paint my nails. I shave my legs and pits and pluck my eyebrows. My DDs have had their ears pierced whenever they wished to have it done from age 7 on. DS has never expressed any wish to have his ears done, nor has he ever commented on being circumcised. All of them have their full quota of vaccines.

When I gave the OK to have DS circumcised it was because there were apparently medical reasons for it, including lowering DS's risk of ever developing penile cancer. Circumcision allegedly has a protective effect against syphilis. I don't think the evidence for the medical necessity was as strong as my OB/GYN made it out to be back then and I'm not sure if I would have DS circumcised if he were born tomorrow as opposed to 18 years ago, but I would definitely attend the bris or send a gift if I were a family member or even if I were a friend invited for the occasion. No matter how strongly one feels about it there is no excuse for using the word disgusting or any sort of rudeness when it comes to a religious occasion.

FlangelinaBallerina · 27/10/2011 18:38

Mathanxiety, why do you mention your hair removal, earrings and nail painting? Is it because you think this equates to removing part of the genitals? Even earring holes sometimes close up again. Also, where did you get the idea that because someone claims a religious justification for their actions, that means the word disgusting can't be used?

Thank you for sharing your experience about the medical necessity having been exaggerated to you.

MrBloomsNursery · 27/10/2011 18:38

What a load of complete and utter shite. I have a very good sexual relationship with my circumcised husband. He's never complained about lack of pleasure during sex, and I've never had any complaint either. Having a circumcision doesn't make you infertile or unable to hold a sexual relationship.
And this "mental well being" bullshit is complete bollocks too! So every man who has ever been circumcised is mentally unstable Hmm.

I really would like to see your petition for banning circumcision!!! Why don't you take it to the House of Commons? Having it banned here would result in millions of people going abroad to get it done by non-health professionals which would lead to higher rates of the procedure going wrong and a higher chance of infection. Stupidity seems to rule on this thread.

DutchGirly · 27/10/2011 18:46

Math, the medical advantages are vastly overexaggerated in the USA it is part of a multi billion industry. Not only does the hospital charge for the procedure, the foreskins are sold to private bio-research laboratories and pharmaceutical companies who require human flesh as raw research material.

Back to the OP, I can understand why the SIL would use those words, maybe she did not mean to describe it that way but it is the way she feels and she is entitled to her feelings.

She was not rude in any other way, she simply stated she would not attend as she found the act of circumcision disgusting.

MrsStephenFry · 27/10/2011 18:47

To be clear, hostility to net randoms is beyond the pale, surgical removal of childrens body parents is great and worth celebrating.

And its the other people who are stupid? Ummm, okay. Hmm

MrsStephenFry · 27/10/2011 18:48

Parts not parents. Stupi bloody thing.

Manathome · 27/10/2011 18:48

What a nice person you are MrBloomsNursery and someone like YOU feels they have the RIGHT to mutilate a child, well with regards to the going abroad, can you please make it a one way ticket, I can't see the likes of the person you portray being welcome by the majority in a civilised country such as the UK.

PigletJohn · 27/10/2011 18:48

"He's never complained about lack of pleasure during sex,"

well of course not, that would be quite rude.

MrBloomsNursery · 27/10/2011 18:49

Yes, stupid, for claiming that someone will sign a petition to have it banned!! Complete and utter crap.

FlangelinaBallerina · 27/10/2011 18:49

MrBloom, I have a good relationship with my circumcised DH too. Let's be clear that you can object to the procedure and still have a cut DH. My DH was done for medical reasons, which of course is fair enough, and he isn't arsed about it. Of course, his parents didn't do it because they thought God was telling them to though, and he had pain relief. And it's not as if anyone who was cut as a child would know if it made any difference to their sexual pleasure anyway.

I do agree that banning such procedures isn't the best way to stop them. People who are sufficiently convinced that they have the right to cut bits off their children's genitals will do whatever they need to do to convince it. We've seen that grotesque and pronounced sense of entitlement in this thread. You are a good example of it. There could, of course, be prison sentences, as there are for FGM. But punishing people after the fact isn't the same as preventing it. And there isn't the political will to do it. None of this changes the fact that people who circumcise are putting their children through a medically unnecessary, permanent and painful procedure without consent though. The fact that it would be hard to eradicate circumcision doesn't justify you doing it. Anymore than the fact that it would be hard to eradicate other acts of violence towards others bodies justifies inflicting them.

mathanxiety · 27/10/2011 18:50

It isn't as nature made me, and the plucking hurts. So did the ear-piercing. I must say, I agree with MrBloomsNursery's post despite my misgivings about the strength of the medical evidence in favour of circumcision. Wrt the medical argument being exaggerated -- 18 years ago I think I got the state of the art message at the time. Studies are being done continuously that have either borne out or debunked what I was told; one day there may be some clear advantage proved in the case of circumcision. I don't think there was any effort to lead me up the garden path.

Another thing that was said in favour of having it done soon after birth was that if he had to get it done for any reason later during childhood or adulthood it would be more painful and more risky, take longer to heal. There are some medical reasons to have it done later in life.

I get the idea that the word disgusting can't be used in connection with religious practices from my upbringing in a civilised home.

Methe · 27/10/2011 18:54

I would sign a petition to get it banned!

"I get the idea that the word disgusting can't be used in connection with religious practices from my upbringing in a civilised home"

What, not even FGM?

DutchGirly · 27/10/2011 18:54

MrBloom, how would your husband know the difference between circumcised and uncircumcised sex? He can't make that distinction. Can you make the distinction between having sex with a circumcised or uncircumcised man?

Nobody has stated circumcision causes lack of pleasure, it does reduce the sensation significantly as the main receptors are removed. Obviously circumcision would not make you infertile as it does not affect sperm production so I am not sure where you got that idea from or are you getting confused with impotence?