To be upset about my xh having the kids for xmas??

[StaceymAloneForver]

Me and xh broke up 3 years ago and the arrangement has always been that they stay here xmas eve, then go to him at 4pm on xmas day. This year he has suddenly said he wants to have the dc's for xmas eve, and he said it in front of them, dd wanted to go to him, and ds wanted to stay here, which i was kinda ok with.

Now xh has put pressure on ds (5) and he's really confused about what he wants and he doesnt want to upset anyone and it's all got really complicated. I've ended up saying to ds that he should go to his dads with his sister as i don't want to confuse/upset him any further.

I jsut can't help feeling upset that my kids aren't going to be with me at xmas......AIBU??

this makes me so mad when the ex makes dictats from on high to the dcs without any discussion with the other adult.
Children should never be put into the situation of choosing like this, heartbreaking for them to feel the guilt of leaving the other parent out because of couse they love them both. Unnaceptable. These decisions are for the adults to do and then present them to the dcs as sensitively as poss.

You need to tell him by email that it was unacceptable the way he told the kids something that hadn't been dedided or even discussed before so if he would like to change the arrangemengts they must be a straight swap and the changeover at 4pm or nothing.

I also think that the dcs would be better off doing that as the unfair way he has 'suggested' would be too much of a difference to the 'norm'

you 'do' xmas, their memories are this at the moment. They need to keep xmas as a good memory by the continuity between you both on the same day if it's going to the other end of the day then that's going to be exciting for them (prompt). But to not see you both as they are soo yound yet I think would be a jolt judging by ds reaction.

Oh and if he wants to play dirty by discussing this stuff with or in front of the kids then why not follow his example and ask him if/when he intends paying his agreed and fair maintenance - if he really loved his kids he would pay.

Ok so I know that you wouldn't really want to hurt your kids by telling them that their dad doesn't love them enough to pay anything towards their living costs but maybe something to remind him of in these negotiations. And to fantasize about telling him and making him pay up!

So,

He quits his job every time the CSA catches up with him.

He refuses to spend 'his' contact time doing things that the DCs would dearly like to do (like a best friend's birthday, which is what, all of 2 hours out of his weekend?)

He places the onus of responsibility on his DC by informing them of plans behind their mother's back and therefore making them feel guilty if one parent is disappointed.

He is hardly father of the year, is he? How any man can claim to be putting his DC first when he acts like this is beyond me. Cares for his children so much he's prepared to quit his job before he'll actually spend any money on them.

Look op you have to be assertive and put your foot down, insist he bring them back by Christmas afternoon or you will be coming to collect them. He is having them on Christmas Eve, Christmas day. Its very low of him to say this in front of the children.

He is taking the piss tbh, you need to be assertive. Say that they are staying at yours Christmas Eve and that that he can have them on Christmas day, but they come back on boxing day.

Why exactly should you get to spend Christmas Eve with them every year? You should alternate between Christmas Eve and Boxing Day surely? Christmas Eve and Christmas morning are THE magical parts of Christmas with children and your children's father is missing that.

I'm not commenting on the rest because - and I hate to say this - but you would say those things about him wouldn't you. He's your ex. And he isn't here to defend himself. It is also irrelevant. All that matters is he is the children's father and he has equal rights to spend time with them.

Yes gaelic but Christmas Eve, Day and boxing day , this should be shared

gaelic I don't think it's on to accuse the OP of lying.

Yes it's natural to think badly of people who have done us harm, but lying is a step removed from that.

If the OP says her XP isn't paying maintenance, I believe her. Most non-resident parents actually don't believe it or not.

And as far as I'm concerned, any non-resident parent who wilfully refuses to pay maintenance has lost all my sympathy. There really is no excuse if people on benefits are considered capable of paying £5 per week.

If he doesn't pay maintenance, I'd say he's more than capable of doing everything else the OP has mentioned too.

Whereas the OP has not stopped her X from having the DC on Xmas day precisely because she does put her DC above her own personal interests:

"Now xh has put pressure on ds (5) and he's really confused about what he wants and he doesn't want to upset anyone and it's all got really complicated. I've ended up saying to ds that he should go to his dads with his sister as i don't want to confuse/upset him any further."

my parents split up when i was young and the worst thing they could have asked me was what do you want to do.... i hated having to choose one of them it felt like i was being unfair to the other, when really you want to be with both. I much preferred just being told what i was doing.

Parents don't have rights, only responsibilities.

The OP's X is in breach of one of the most important of his - providing for his DC.

The children have the right to see and maintain a relationship with both parents. I agree that doesn't necessarily mean fairness as far as the parents are concerned, which is why so many people, like me, allow useless Xs in their children's lives and actually encourage the relationship despite personally preferring to never see them again. Like many other single parents I know I also refuse to let myself, or others, speak ill of my X in front of my DC because I understand how vital it is for them to grow up seeing the positive elements of their father so that they don't ever feel ashamed of the half of their physical inheritance that comes from him.

The OP has clearly showed she is trying to put their needs before her own by letting them spend far more time at Xmas away from her than they have ever spent away from their father.

That's a good parent - one who doesn't emotionally blackmail their DC like the father has done in this situation. I'd say the OP is damn well entitled to feel upset about it actually. She's doing it on here instead of using her DC as pawns.

I bet if anyone asked the DC what they wanted, it wouldn't be to be away from their mother for Xmas Eve, Xmas Day and Boxing Day.

meant he is seeing them on Christmas eve, Christmas day, and boxing day, that is not on!

Believe it or not - I have offered my Ex-P christmas eve and Christmas day this year - and he has refused. However I also have an alternating arrangement with my Ex-H, so DS1 is away this year. If Ex-P expects NEXT christmas - he can go whistle. He can have Christmas 2011, 2013, 2015 and alternate years like that - but I WILL damn well have all 4 of my dc together every other Christmas. And I KNOW that any court would back me - I've had legal advice on that! The dc have a right to a family life with their SIBLINGS too. Waiting for Ex-P to realise that no matter WHAT he does, he will NOT get Christmas 2012, 2014, 2016 etc. Odd years are my non-child Christmas, even years are MY christmas. If he doesn't like it - tough SHIT. He can try taking me to court - he won't win, as I am offering every other christmas.

thank you moonshine, its made me feel a lot better, and yeah you're right im having a b*tch on here so i don't do it to friends/my partner when the kids might hear it, its not fair on them.

As far as my kids know their father is a lovely man who loves them dearly just doesn't love me anymore.

gaelic, however i know i am biased against my x i can promise this info is all true, i am not launching a personal attack just stating facts about his parenting i can hardly understand.

i have invited him to a joint birthday party for both kids this weekend even though i can't stand to be in the same room as him because they asked me too. He has declined because it would be 'akward'..........i give up!

He may have anticipated that you would have both children with you the first Xmas and he would have the second. This did not happen so now he is making a stand hence wanting them the entirety of Xmas day.

Alternatively he may have expected them to stay with you whilst DS was really small and then he would have the lions share this year as a quid pro quo and then 50/50.

There is no right answer, letting the kids decide puts pressure on them to chose between parents and can be a convenient excuse for a manipulative parent to get their own way (e.g. DSD was due to overnight with us the night before her 13th birthday have her presents with us and then go home have presents with mum and brothers and then school. Mum decided that she didn't want to get up 1/2 an houyr earlier and asked my DSD did she want to have presents at Daddy's the day before birthday then come home in evening and get presents from Mum and brothers before school OR stay at Dad's get presents from us but not get presents from her and boys until after school (boys were 16 and 21 so don't imagine her rushing around trying to dress three tiny tots!). She had arranged a meal out in the eve so that wasn't an option. DSD naturally chose to get her presents as early as possible, and we were presented with "DSD doesn't want to see you on her birthday- she has chosen us, I don't blame her you chose to leave her").

The only way around this is to have a proper plan in place, arranged without the children present but taking them into account. You both need to have a proper adult conversation about this, about money, and any other issues that I suspect are on the back burner. You will have to say no at times, and on other things agree to stuff you don't like because it already sounds like your (joint) son's bond with him is not properly formed.

As said earlier this will all fall apart when they are in their teens, and when you add boyfriends/girlfriends with one or two sets of parents into the mix it just all becomes a free for all. (Mother of 2, step mother of 3 aged between 15 and 25)

he has never asked to have them more before or this would have been dealt with then. ds is 5 in a week so isn't tiny, he was 4 last year and 3 the year before. xh was happy with the arrangements for the 2 previous years as he got to see them on xmas day, hence why it's thrown me so much that he wants to change things.

Ds does have a relationship with his father he goes every other weekend and is happy to go, just not the same bond dd has (daddies girl)

moonshine - where did I accuse the OP of lying? I simply said that it is not surprising that she would say bad things about her ex as, by definition, I am guessing they are not the best of friends. My point was that, given that this is one-sided, what he has done or not done is not relevant to the question about Christmas.

I did say they should alternate between having Christmas Eve and having Boxing Day.

StaceyM - I honestly wasn't accusing you of lying. It's just that having been on the other side of the fence I know only two well that there are two sides to every story.

I think it's only fair that if he wants to have them Xmas eve and Xmas morning he brings them to you for Xmas evening. After all that's what you've always done just the other way round. I'd put my foot down...

Is there a reason he wants them all this time (travelling to relies a long way away or other relies visiting him for example) or is he just doing it 'because'?

Not that it makes a difference to you op, but it would be easier to understand why he has changed things suddenly and therefore to counter his demands.

Have you told him yet that he can hAve them the first half of Xmas and you'll have the second half - how has he taken it?

he hasnt answered my phone calls so i will speak to him when he colelcts dc's next weekend, his relatives all live 5 minutes from my house and he only lives 25 mins by car so no travelling, think he just wants what he wants and sod everyone else in the process

OP: Put your foot down - and keep it down. He's not playing fair by your kids. I would go so far as to say that you will collect DS and DD at 4pm on Christmas Day in order to keep arrangements on an even keel. I know that you'll be taking more responsibility for collecting them, but then you won't be subject to whims etc...

If he's doing it to be awkward and controlling then I definitely wouldn't let him get away with it. And he's forcing you to have the conversation in front of the kids if he's not responding to you beforehand.

Do your kids realise that they won't see you at all over Xmas or are they thinking that they will be seeing you for the second part and just switching over normal times? Just keep on that if he has them Xmas eve then you will pick them up his normal picking up time on Xmas afternoon.

Keep at it stacey you know it's only right to share the day whichever way around, you can make their xmas great.