Affluence and Class - Linked?

[deviladvocate]

Prompted by thread in chat regarding being middle class, I was startled at how many posters were offended by the suggestion that being middle class was defined by income.

AIBU to think that affluence and class are inextricably linked? Doesn't being able to move beyond simply providing food and shelter for your family mean that you become middle class - by virtue of being able to focus on the nice-to haves and not just on the essentials?

I find the whole working class done good attitude a bit insulting tbh

Why would you want to be considered middle class ?

You are what you are

My youngest son thinks we are poor because we don't have an Xbox, named trainers or a Wii.

Do you think the WC are ashamed of being what they are ? I hate the stereotyping that goes on.

I'm genuinely confused by this?

WordFactory - you're upper class then, yes?

Ooo - mommom - you live near me! Possibly .

Quite simply NO

Sometimes I think class is something people are largely born with.

I know of one woman who had a very working class parents, extended family etc, lived in a poor area, education was very poor. Family have strong regional accents, and could be said to be uncouth. Swearing, farting, burping was hilarious etc. Reading was for twerps and "poshies".

However this woman is totally unlike that. She is a gentle, quiet soul who loves reading, (she doesn't just read all the classics, she really knows and gets them in a way that can't be learned from textbooks). She did go to university, the first in her family and without the support of her family (again, uni is for work-shy "poshies" and got no help at all financially or otherwise, consequently, she worked 3 jobs to pay her way (prior to having to pay fees though luckily). She is humble and dreamy, she has lovely natural manners and finesse, all unlike her family. She just doesn't seem to have come from that tough environment yet she very much did. And it's not as though she has consciously rejected it - on the contrary, she is proud of her family and isn't embarassed or ashamed of her background in the slightest, but if ever anyone was middle class it's her whereas her background is very "Shameless" kind of working class. Even as a child she was like this and stood out quite a lot at the tough local primary (needless to say she was picked on).

How can anyone explain that?

Conversely I know people who were born into firm and long-standing middle class going back generations, who behave like "rich chavs" and have always tended to behave more "working class".

I don't get that either!

usualsuspect I asked that earlier but no one answered.

Presumably those who haven't acquired money are " working class done shit" or " working class done nothing". Which incidentally would be me and my hard working but badly paid husband.

Actually I did Fo0ffy. Very soon after you posted.

Nah I'm working class.

Like usual says, I'm not remotely ashamed of it. Why would I be?

I just don't feel middle class. I don't share many of the attitudes and I certainly don';t share the angst.

As for how I spend my money...well we have a crumbling pile, DC in independent school, livery bills that would make my Mother weep, investments for the future etc, art...but we also love flash cars, nice clothes and I have a weekly manicure.

We are muddle class perhaps.

I tell you what isn't MC.

It isn't having a MN MC Checklist.
Just because your kid is called TallulahMontgomery and wears Boden, you are not necessarily MC.

Just because you shop at Waitrose and eat Hoummus, it does not make you MC.

HTH.

I think 'done good' means 'well' or 'exceeded expectations' using an deliberate turn of poor grammar as working class people were tradtionally poorly educated.

Those who hadn't acquired more money would merely be 'working class remaining working class'.

Sorry Katie yes you did. Just seen it.

slacker I have a theory that the MC signifier checklists have become prevalent since income could no longer be relied upon as marking out the MC.

With the rise of house prices, particularly in fashionable areas, the astronomical increase in school fees, and the relative low pay of any trad MC professions, they now have to mark themselves out by other means. Thus the signifiers have become crucial to those wishing to preserve their perceived higher status.

well if you are born into a rich family you are more than like to get a lof
of money left to you as Mother Natures calls times on your elders.

In that way a lot of dosh is handed down through families. And of course
even "new money" will hand down the booty.

You really cannot take it with you>

Hormonally I get that I just still find it an insulting turnof phrase both to the " working class remaining working class" and to the " working class done good". There's a real feeling of being kept in your place. No matter what you do, you WC folk you"ll never better yourselves. Or be accepted. Or something like that. I've lost my own point now.

No one knows their place anymore. The rich have become the super rich, the aristos sold their country piles to pay death duties the working class now have the underclass beneath them.

Because the extremes are greater the middle is larger. 60 years ago a teacher could get a mortgage for a 4 bedroom detached house and support his wife and children. At the moment a teacher might get a mortgage on a one or two bed flat in London. His wife almost certainly will work because without a second salary the mortgage can't be paid.

We used to have wealthy independent shop keepers, they've disappeared off the face of the earth and the supermarket families have joined the super rich.

Everybody goes to university these days, it's no longer a badge of elitism but it keeps the unemployment levels down.

Being middle class might have been a mark of achievement once but now it's our default setting.

It's a bit like the chestnut new money.

I mean why would anyone think that money you have earned yourself is less worthy than cash you got by virtue of outliving your granny?

"Being middle class might have been a mark of achievement once but now it's our default setting."

Most sensible thing I've read all day.

I don't think they're linked either.

I once heard someone say (can't remember who) that you should live in the nicest house you can afford, and drive the worst car you can get away with.

That chimes, to me, with what I think of as middle class values. Not all of them, but I do think of it as quite a middle class mentality.

Liking "Muddle Class" WordFactory sign me up :o

I can't take credit for muddle class I'm afraid. T'was coined here on MN.

But I love it

i LIKE wfs phrase "Muddle class" At my best it might describe me. However, I do think people who are flash/flush with money should flash it less in a fast developing recession. Discretion is the better part of luxury bragging.

Fo0ffyShmooffer ..I get your point exactly .whats wrong with remaining Working class

But chill who gets to decide what is acceptabel spending? The MC?

Are vastly overpriced veg boxes okay? What about horses (money pits that they are)?