To trhinkl that it is madness to allow buggies on buses?

[mrsruffallo]

I think wherever possible (i.e older babies onwards) buggies should be folded up. I am so tired of these oversized contraptions being pushed through the aisles, banging passengers thighs and shoulders as the squeeze talong a narrow aisle. I have had my ankles knocked todday and somehow had to squeeze against another passenger along the crowded aisle to make room for yet another buggy.
Theworst thing I have witnesses was a wheeelchair user being denied access onto the bus because there was already a buggy in the wheelchair space. The buggy owner didn't offer to fold up and got off a few stops later.

You can actually get those P&T buggies on more easily that some of the other surprisingly...! I got talking to a childminder on a bus once with one and she said they were narrower than they looked!

The problem is people try to buy a buggy that does everything and I don't think one exists...if you want a sturdy off road type thing but also want it to go on the bus you need two buggies really....

I think lots of people don't like putting babies into Maclarens even though they go flat as they aren't as sturdy and cosy as other buggies....But for the price of some of the bigger buggies you could buy yourself a small car and a cheaper buggy and not need to use the bus

onefatcat in London, the wheelchair users get priority over other passengers in the wheelchair space. They'd either have to squish elsewhere or get off. There is however only space for one wheelchair at a time.

This is the double deckers btw, not sure about bendy buses.

It's odd, really. There's a growing trend to keep toddlers rear-facing in cars, because it's apparently marginally safer than forward-facing.

Then we have people wondering why parents might not see an unrestrained, unsteady young toddler sitting on a bus seat as a desirable way to travel!

Yess Kenobi, we had a folding Graco from birth: tiny car boot necessitated umbrella folding buggy. Much like this

They are out there but it takes some researching.

whoneedssleepanyway Re expense - I love, love, loved my expensive bugaboo (which did indeed literally cost the same as the second car I ever owned ) and I hate the Maclaren which we have now, but yes, it's far more convenient in London.

It just seems wrong to me that one sector of society takes preference over another. Yes, many people might be kind enough to inconvenienve themselves and cost themselves more for a wheelchair user, but it shouldn't be enforced that they have to! After all, we all have different circumstances, different needs at different times.

It might sound silly, but reframe the issue for a moment. Public transport means that - it is for all of us. It isn't even a question of us mothers and our own rights - the babies have a right to a safe spot on the bus. They aren't luggage to be redistributed.

Good post, brdgrl.

onefatcat, are you serious? You're effectively saying that wheelchair users shouldn't be able to use public transport during rush hours. How is that fair or reasonable?

Well, if it wasn't for the disabled rights campaigners, my local buses would still have steps, and a handrail dividing the door-space in two.

They campaigned hard. Generations of parents just put up with it, because our access limitations were temporary, or we got cars, or we walked.

Disabled users take precedence.

YABVU and ridiculous.

If I couldn't have taken an unfolded pushchair on the bus I wouldn't have been able to go anywhere when each of my kids were born: heavy babies and c-sections both times.

When ds was about 2 and I was (heavily) pregnant with dd I used to have to take a non-accessible bus to a toddler group once a week and it was a nightmare (but I was so exhausted from the pregnancy that it was actually better than the accessible bus and walking option!). It was really difficult, even with an umbrella style buggy, as ds was a bolter. Sometimes people helped me, and I really appreciated it, but mostly I just had to manage on my own and it was a stupid waste of time and effort compared to being able to just push and park a buggy on an accessible bus.

I too loathed the monster prams, with both kids we had as compact as we could that did the job they were needed for. Unfortunately, I needed a pushchair with dd much longer than I would have liked because I didn't have a car but needed to get to places within specific time slots. As mentioned earlier I have heavy kids, and it got to the stage where I physically couldn't push her in the compact, manoeuvreable, bus-friendly buggy and I ended up having to get a second hand monster pushchair. It was an absolute pain on the buses but, without it and the accessible buses, work and school pick-ups would have meant I couldn't take her to her regular toddler groups, or meet up with friends, or go out for the day. Carrying her wasn't an option, she was much too heavy, so if we went out she would still need the pushchair for when she got tired. I had to use it until the summer just before she turned four and was really glad to finish with it.

I only once had to get off the bus to let a wheelchair user get on, but I accepted that that was just one of the inconveniences of having to use that pushchair and was grateful that it only happened once. I do agree though that anyone travelling regularly on the bus should get something more bus friendly but I think until you actually travel regularly on the buses you don't appreciate what works best and if you've already spent a fortune on a flash pram it's hard to justify buying anything else.

onefatcat I'm ok with it personally. As a wheelchair user you have enough shit to put up with so I think they can have enough space to be able to get on the damn bus.

I've seen it happen a few times - a local guy commutes in his wheelchair - and everyone just breathes in and shoves up. He gets a few evils though.

Plus in London there is always another one along in a minute. Well, within the next 10 minutes anyway

Yes Jessie I've often thought how beneficial the wheelchair accessibility adjustments are for all other wheeled users ? pushchairs, luggage, deliveries.

Such an obvious improvement for so many circumstances it's hard to believe it took disability legislation to make it happen.

Tianc

I am very grateful to the disability campaigners for all the lifts in shops, accessible buses, ramps & lifts to stations, etc that made the period of my life involving young children and pushchairs so much, much easier and more pleasant than it could ever have been without all these accommodations.

It should not have taken legislation to ensure bus design change. I understand it wouldn't have happened overnight, but as buses were replaced, they should have been purchasing buses that better accommodated more of their potential customers, anyway.

Looks like "market forces" aren't all they're cracked up to be!

No, onefatcat, nobody who is already on can be required to get off.

But it's sad to think that nobody will stand, re-organise, fold a buggy, hold a child, hold somebody else's shopping while that passenger folds a buggy, whatever it might be, to allow a wheelchair-user on. Or even (time, weather, and nearness to destination permitting) get off voluntarily.

The same applies to the unburdened helping the buggy user. It's public transport, not a bloody limo, and you have to expect some discomfort at busy times.

I would say that a buggy user (1) must be ready to fold if need be but (2) all around should help in the process.

I find getting on buses with a 15 month old and three year old so stressful that I walk everywhere - hours and hours a day sometimes. This is because people are so judgemental, buses are so badly designed (it's often very difficult to fold a pushchair on them, especially when the bus driver pulls off immediately) and each bus round here seems to be designed differently.

No one has ever helped me. No one has ever even given me supportive glance. It just stinks and I hate it.

I think onefatcat meant when bus reaches capacity: hope she did anyway!

Buses don't stop when full, having had a 7 mile walk with 2 under 2, basic fold up buggy and buggy board in December after dark alongside an aoad with no paths I know this (and love the car I now have)

Well I am disabled so can't drive.

What do you suggest I do?

Sit at home with DD til DP gets in?

Latru that's sad

ATM I am too busy coping with my own offspring should I have to get a bus but if I were not I would certinaly wnat to help butalso am aware how angry people get on here osmtimes if you so much as glance at their baby let along offer to hold it whilst they fols, and I can barely fold my own buggy let alone someone else's!

BUT I would always offer. Since I moved to Wales I have found a lot more people willing to ofer: ds4 probably has ASD and it took 7 old aldies plus me with buggy to get him on a bus last time, the help was so welcome, back home in Somerset we rarely got help

Of couse you can put a baby under 6 months in a fold up buggy, I have never had any other type, you don't need a hun machine to transport a child

Actually Andrewofgg I'm pretty sure bus companies, and therefore their drivers have the right to refuse anyone entry, or require them to leave their buses. That's why they can kick off drunk people and large groups of marauding schoolies.

Im a bus driver in London and if we have 2 buggies in the wheelchair space and a person in a wheelchair wants to get on, we can ASK the people with buggies to fold them to make way for the wheelchair user but cannot FORCE them to fold them. A few times ive had women refuse to fold so I have had to refuse the wheelchair user. They do not get priority.
People with Buggies generally dont cause any problems, Just the silly few who try to get on when the bus is packed and then argue with you that

"theres no buggy on the bus so can u make everyone get off so i can get on with the buggy, then they can get back on."

we have a timeline to stick to, havent got time to wait at a bus stop for 5 minutes to do that.
Or they can see there are 2 buggies on board and still try to get on and try and stand in walkways or by the back door which is not allowed for heath and safety.
I have no problems with the buggies, just some of the people who are pushing them!

your kidding me, you don't give priority to wheelchairs!!
ffs

I can't believe how many different angles the old "buggies on the bus" dilemma can generate. Of course buggies shouldn't be banned - as long as people use their common sense.

Surely, surely it isn't that complicated? Perhaps we could draw up the Mumsnet Rules of Buggies on Buses and try to have them passed as law. I'll start - feel free to add to them:

1. If thou dost travel regularly by bus, thou shalt not purchase a buggy that is bigger than some small countries.

2. If thou choosest to ignore Rule 1, thou shalt be absolutely prohibited from indulging in whinging about not being get thy buggy on the bus. Even when prevented from doing so by other large-buggy-wielding mother or bloody-minded pensioners.

3. If thou should ever suggest that having a buggy in any way places thou in the same category of need as disabled bus-users then thou art an arse and shall be banned from buses forevermore.

4. If thou wishes to use thy buggy on the bus thou must accept that while it is difficult to fold thy buggy, it is not (barring special circumstances) impossible and this does not trump any suggestion by others that thou shoud fold and stop moaning.

Any more?