to think if you can deliver and collect your children from school...

[NoseyNooNoo]

I have ended up class rep this year (how did that happen?) so I am now lumbered with trying to persuade parents to volunteer for about 50 sessions helping out at school this year. I fully appreciate that there are few mums who have no job and no children at home and to be honest it's no skin off my nose if the sessions aren't filled but what is getting my goat is the number of women who have said 'Don't you realise some of us work some full time?' in a some what patronising tone.

AIBU to be annoyed by this because a) I do actually have a job myself but as I am self-employed this in not necessarily evident and b) if they are there at 9am and 3pm it is unlikely that they work full-time either.

Thanks for letting me off load!

That's why I said it was unlikely. You can't tell who works full time.

Again, it's not about who does the most hours, just not appreciative of the sneering tone.

I do see your point, op, but I wonder if their response might be more defensive than sneering? I know I feel guilty for not being able to help out with school things because of my job, and there does sometimes seem to be a (smal) set of mothers who seem to almost feel sorry for me, what with poor me having to work because I couldn't manage to snare a better-off husband. (see? defensive ) It does cut both ways at times!

I didn't consider that they'd be defensive. I'm not aware of there being mums who feel sorry for working mums and I think most of the mums who only have school age children work in some way.

Yours is a new perspective.

Off to bed now - thank you for the insight.

Well DH may well volunteer to help out on school trips when DS starts school next year, and we have friends where the dad also does more of the helping-school stuff.

YABU to expect the mums exclusively and not the dads to do it all. IMVHO.

Sounds pretty rude to me. Class reps are generally saints who end up picking up the slack for everyone else.

DS2 has rather nicely got me out of this whole thing for a while, I volunteer but for some reason my offers are never accepted, I think the tantrumming tassie devil at my knee puts people off...

Some will sneer because they're not very nice. Some will come across as sneering when they're feeling defensive. Some would probably like to do it but can't and feel annoyed.

Smile, nod, and move on.

I'd be extremely concerned about a school that plots 50 sessions of parent help through the year

doesn't sound adequately staffed to me

being asked to help "children" and not being able to help "children" either through work obligations or just not wanting to is of course guilt-inducing, I can't believe that's news

schools should be capable of managing without parental involvement in the classrrom - any involvement should be a bonus and not schemed into works

I was highly involved with my first children's primary school in the earlier years - PTA member, chair of PTA, parent governor - by the time eldest two were approaching secondary transfer I was totally and utterly over it - and delighted to see that newer parents took the mantle but disgusted to see the judgement in their eyes when they asked if I'd like to do x and were refused

PTA / involvement in school is a role for parents who have young children for the first time

the world gets bigger again as the children get older

of course it doesn't help I have a child who is now just out of KS1 and another at the end of KS2 - I am still seen as a primary parent with time to kill because I have managed to work out school pick-up in my full-time job

I volunteered for the PTA despite having a full-time job but the other members ran it as a SAHM club... organising meetings when I couldn't attend etc. I had to step down in the end because I was effectively excluded despite my offers of help. I'm rather wishing I'd said 'Sorry, can't help. I have a full-time job'...

My husband drops off and picks up. He has rearranged his working hours from 9.30-3 to fit in with this. He could not volunteer without taking a day off work (also he doesn't really like small children).

I'm a teacher. Can see that going down well with my head "please can I have time off to go and volunteer".

Some people just can't - but I have found an assumption on the part of the school that we're available whenever - so far this term two workshops for parents at 8.50am, 3 special assemblies at 3pm, today they want us to pick them up half an hour early and provide transport for a school trip.

Those parents who don't work usually have smaller children, so either way it's going to be difficult. I think the school is being unreasonable expecting you to fill 50 sessions!

I'm assuming these sessions are during school hours?

In that case YABVU, as these parents (not just women!) no doubt have jobs that fit into/around the school run hours - consequently once they've dropped off/before they pick up they will be at work and thus unable to volunteer.

I think you may be hearing sneery when what you're getting is defensiveness and guilt - I hate that I can't always be there for DD's school events (although I too would be questioning an establishment that needs 50 hours additional help!) and when I get yet another invitation/request to attend an assembly/event held in school hours I do sometimes think 'OFFS, don't you realise we all work?' - borne out of frustration, not sneerinness.

Not that I would say it to your face, OP. But I would think it.

As I understand it OP doesn't care that they don't do these sessions, doesn't judge what hours they WOH but dislikes the fact that people doing a pick up sneer at her for daring to ask?

Which is NU

Jooly has a very constructive point
Now I have to go ... and not listen to the bitching because I work full time

She was sneered at by fathers at pick up she was sneered at by mothers. you can only speak to the people who are their at pick up. Perhaps the fathers were more polite or had already volunteered.

I've done ft, pt, woh, Wah and sah. I like the op see ft work as 40 hours a week or more in your job. When I did nights, people forced expected me to be around because I had my days free , particularly the mums who worked school hours to fit around their children.

I once had a call off a Mum asking me to collect her Ds from school as he was sickband look after him till she finished her shift. She deliberately called because she new I'd be at home. When I pointed out I needed to sleep she got the hump snd refused to speak to me.

I don't see why the women in the op could not just say no thanks, I looked at the dates and times and cant commit?

A couple of people have said they (or their dh) don't like other people's kids. IMO this is a valid reason not to become a teacher or another job with children, but not to refuse to spend one hour helping out in their child's school!

No you're right!

herecomesthesun - I asked mums and dads and my OP said 'parents'. Some dads have volunteered.

We are asked to volunteer, give money, give prizes , all the time. Attend sports day, christmas play, making a xxxx day, helping with reading, it just goes on and on and on. Drives me mad.
And we all go. Every single parent. 60 out of 60. Not one kid, is ever let down.
So no, don't ask me to volunteer for the summer fete. I don't want to thank you. I am looking after ds2. I would rather give you a quid and be done with it.

If someone asked me to volunteer for a session at DS1's school I would a) feel guilty about having to say no and b) feel the need to justify my refusal.

Which, in my case, would be that I work a 60+h week. I still manage to make it to pick up and drop off more than a couple of times a week, I would resent anyone telling me that implied I wasn't working full time.

OP I sympathise. I had that role for two years (thats how long we were elected for - I wonder why! These days parents are signed up as reps on a meeting before their hopefulls even start their first term, for all years going forward....)

Anyway, it is a nightmare to find helpers for various things, especially as it was the culture for the kids to walk to and from school on their own, and we relied an having to phone parents in the afternoon when they were likely to be home from work..... No sneering though.

I am determined to NOT take on a rep role at my sons new school too much hassle, and I feel I have done my part (although in a different school.) I am however volunteering to help in a club at school once a week. That is enough. I enjoy it. It gets me away from my accounting work (like mn does).
But I am there at drop off an pick up, and often continue working with the kids in the house, as I also work from home.

I'm also a Class Rep and the ONLY WAY a PTA can work is if they have the right attitude and sort out things that people can easily be part of. In my view if someone's reason is simply "I can't be bothered" then that is something I accept with a smile.

Just because I have time and can be bothered doesn't mean everyone else does.

We now have an option for people to donate £xx per year so they don't feel obliged to help out at very twatty fetes, these things make a lot of people's teeth itch.

Many companies now will not allow match funding for schools. Schools get a budget and spend it accordingly, and though PTA fundraising is an excellent way to improve facilities, its often not targeted at specifics.

The year that we had a target in mind, with specific items on the 'wish list' was the year that everyone happily got mucked in.

As far as people giving up their time, whether its for a fundraising event of for in class 'clubs' then you work with what you get, you don't get angry, upset, and you certainly don't say 'well I manage it so why can't you?' because that's unfair and puts people's noses out of joint. Our PTA chairman works full time, doesn't often stop until 8pm, then she works on PTA stuff, and she never has a second to herself... now don't get me wrong, I applaud her effort and martyrdom, but that's HER thing, not mine and I refuse to feel apologetic for it.

In fact, I think being the parent of a child in a uk school is a full time job in itself! What with all the things we have to do, all the places we have to be, all the money we have to spend, all the homework, and all the ferrying around on activities....

I tell ya, It is not like this everywhere!!

I do think that it is a strange response that these parents are giving to your question.

If I was there for school drop off and pick up, I wouldn't imagine that anyone thought I worked full time, even if I was. Because I was at the school during "normal" full time working hours IYSWIM. So if someone asked if I could do something during the school hours, I wouldn't say "don't you realise some people work full time" in a snotty way as that would be totally U.

Do these parents need to be checked prior to being with the children? Just curious. Because that might put some parents off (plus you'd think it would be pretty expensive for the school).

I am a SAHM, but do not volunteer in the classroom. Neither does DH. DH has mental health issues, so I can't imagine it would be helpful for him to be in the classroom at the moment. We have a 2yo DS as well, and he cannot be left with DH at the moment (too stressful, he is still in a rather fragile state) so I couldn't volunteer in the classroom. Also my 5yo has SNs and a full time 1:1 TA in class. If I were in the classroom, he would be distracted and play up, which would completely negate the purpose of having the 1:1 there. So no... I wouldn't volunteer in the classroom either. I have gone along on school outings, however, I shared responsibility for DS with his TA, so that they didn't have to pull someone else to assist if the TA needed a break and such.

I imagine a fair number of parents are not comfortable with all the children in the classroom, some are most likely doing other things like possibly caring for other children or perhaps older relatives/parents, part time jobs, working in their home, appointments, etc. These things happen.

Personally I would be concerned about a school that required parental volunteers to make things work in the classroom.

YANBU to be annoyed with the attitude. Is it really difficult to say 'sorry I work full-time' rather than making a patronising comment?