Can't someone just be odd?

[lesley33]

I read on this forum and hear other mums, assuming that if someone is a bit different they must have SN or MH problems. Sometimes people are just a bit odd or eccentric. So AIBU to think that some people can be odd or eccentric and not have SN or MH issues?

I think MN is often polarised from real life, tbh.

I have rarely met a child for whom the diagnostic process is easy.

Taking DD1 as an example. Her pre-school came to me after 8 weeks. They observed her for the first 6 weeks, as she was so young (2.6). Then there was the Summer break, in which they hoped she would 'mature'.

After the summer break, they waited 2 weeks for 'settling' then came to me.

The person from the LA who observed her, deemed her 'immature', but given her 'behaviours' (she was frenetic, and wobbly, a bad combination), they put 1:1 in place.

We were one of the lucky ones, really, in that she started falling over for no reason 4 weeks later. She skipped the waiting lists, skipped the referrals procedure, and was admitted to hospital, when 3 consultants looked her over and decided which of them was most suited to look after her.

Now, to be honest, the likelihood is that they may still be wondering if she was 'odd' or 'naughty' if it wasn't for the fact that she started falling over. They did an EEG, and that showed epilepsy, and ALSO, crucially, said 'something fishy here, do a brain scan'.

She had an MRI, which showed that her brain isn't right. Various bits are all just a bit 'odd'. The lining generally is 'not quite right'.

It's almost exactly 3 years since I took her to the GP saying 'look, the LA woman says she needs 1:1, now she's falling over for no reason, there must be SOMETHING up'. (Incidently, I had taken her to the GPs twice before with falling over, and they put it down to viruses on both occasions.)

That 3 years has been taken up with EEGs, MRI scan, appointments, SALT, OT, Portage, and Statementing. She is starting her second year of Special School.

She STILL has no definitive diagnosis.

We are lucky, because they won't stop looking. There is enough 'hard' evidence (ie. MRI scan, motor skill issues, Speech and language, etc.) for them to keep searching.

DD1's just been entered into a brilliant study, Deciphering Developmental Delay. It will do genome mapping, hoping to find out why these children are developmentally atypical. There are 12, 000 children in the UK who will be recruited over the course of 3 years, and there will be thousands more who won't even hear about the study, let alone be able to get their child into it.

It is unusual for children to get an easy diagnosis. Truly. I think one of the easier ones is ASD, because the criteria is so rigid, and is so 'external', ie. it is the 'behaviours' of the child that leads to the criteria being met. Even then, there are so many children with ASD who are known to the system and trawl through it for years, not getting a diagnosis until they are 7, 10, 13.

Bugsy I can see what you mean by Luna. However, this sort of thread really does make it hard on those of us that deal with the reality of those who are 'a little odd' day in, day out. It marginalises the very real difficulties of those with very real needs.
Apologies, though if I seemed to be 'on my high horse'. I can be a bit touchy about this sort of thing.

NC no, not always

But sometimes, asd can be related to MH issues and increased vulnerability to depression, eating disorders etc. It's down to a case by case basis. Some people find it a huge relief (DS1, my Mum) to find out that there is nothing inherently bad about them- it has a label and an explanation.

OTOH when it was intimated that I may have as (I know I do, mildly, never bothered with a DX) I absolutely crashed: my sense of self esteem went through the floor.

It's down to the person, their needs, and crucially how it is affecting their life.

It's too late for me tbh; what are they going to do, send me to ask for advice from someone less qualified then me? no ta. but I am a bully magnet- always have been, nasty people can spot me coming a mile away. If I had known that as a teen I might have avoided the eating disorders I had, maybe someone could have helped me steer clear of a few major fuck ups. Between the age of 16 (crucially the death of my best mate: that (trauma) happens a lot as a trigger) and about 24 I was a write off, and it took me years to get back on track- did my degree in my early thirties, it would have been nice to have been able to have the confidence and skills to leave home*, maybe travel- not to have to do everything six years later than everyone else.

There's a whole movement of people called the neurotypcial movement that wants ASS reclassified as just 'odd', and that is fine for them, good on them. problem is that within that dx there are also kids like my ds1 who has AS and has to attend a SN Base (high IQ, just could not cope with the social and sensory rigours of MS comp). It has to be about the individual and working with each person to define what ASD is for them, and enabling people to step in and out of having a dx as needed.

*I did try but I have a low level agoraphobia that manifested hugely when I went to college and I ended up having to go back home, though obviously I didn't know why I couldn't cope, I just thought I was crap tbh.

Lougle with ds1 it was 3 years for ds1 to get his dx (AS), and 3 for ds3 even though he had obvious difficulties (eg was nto talking, incontinent). DS4 is in system now and the SLT dept sped up the appt for that due to HV panicking buut now- nothing. Paed wait is around a year, just in limbo with a dx of mild language delay and nothing else.

In answer to your question, OP, I've no idea, but I'd like to think a person can just be a bit odd and eccentric, if that's what makes them tick. I was an 'odd kid' and so is dd. We both seem to be happy in our own skins but we both come over as being 'a bit old fashioned'. A friend of mine is extremely odd - does not conform in many ways, is socially awkward (yet popular and has a wide circle of friends) and generally goes about things in an odd way, but it seems to suit him fine and he doesn't appear to need support in any way. I've long since given up trying to understand him and just learned to take him at face value. He is how he is!

I wouldn't want 'odd' as a catch-all term, mind. That would detract from genuine need and prevent people getting access to the support they need. I guess you just have to be careful when you apply the term and to whom. Stands to reason that if we all go about describing others as 'odd' (yes, know I just have) we'll hurt someone's feelings at some point. Mind you, if I suggested to my friend that he might have MH issues or ASD I'd offend him too. Not suggesting any negative connotations to those terms - just that they'd be inappropriate in that case.

A family member of mine has ASD and his reactions to things are necessarily 'odd' but if someone remarked, 'What an odd guy!' I'd want to defend him and set the record straight. I do get, however, that not every case is as cut and dried as the two I've cited. Sometimes 'odd' totally misses the mark and is inappropriate and unkind. Then again, if we could all learn to emrace eccentricity, maybe 'odd' wouldn't seem such a bad thing!

In short, it's a minefield and very difficult to get right! Tread lightly, I guess.

Op i know what you are trying to say...and having been to art college / working as an artist - i've met more than my fair share of odd people - who have mostly done well out of looking at the world from a different angle...

I think that this sort of discussion can bring up the horrors of "only upper class people are eccentric, i was just weird and bullied" and "only middle class children get dyslexia, i was just thick" brigade. Which helps no one.

I like to think we still value our genuine eccentrics though (and by genuine i mean not the "i'm soooo crazeee lol" gang)....they should be cherished...

OP I think I know what you are getting at.

At school I was shy. We moved house and I went to a new school, didn't know anyone and found it hard to fit in. I was happier staying inside the classroom than going outside to the playground and most of my break times were spent sitting alone reading a book. I was never one for doing what everyone else was doing, just to fit in, so my dress sense was a bit 'odd' compared to some of the others and I wasn't ashamed to admit to liking activities, TV programmes, pop groups etc that the other kids thought were uncool or whatever. I didn't want to hide the things I liked just so some gobby cow on the playground would like me, but I felt quite shy about sticking up for myself too. I didn't really know quite how to be myself and still fit in and the playground is a minefield for a shy newcomer who doesn't know the dynamics of the school.

To anyone watching from outside I stood out like a sore thumb. I might have been the odd one out but if someone came along and said "has no friends, doesn't fit in, dresses a bit funny, does her own thing, misjudges some of the social situations she finds herself in so must be special needs" then they would be wrong.

But I get the feeling that had MN existed at that time and my mother had described me, someone here would have been saying exactly that about someone whose biggest problem was being shy and taking a while to find her feet in a new environment.

I don't think you were suggesting dismissing people with genuine signs of special needs etc as just being odd or eccentric, but we shouldn't label everyone as being SN just for having one or two quirks either. Doesn't do anyone any good, either way around.

Look at that poor man who was accused of killing his tenant last Christmas. The media had him as guilty based on the fact that he was a bit of a loner, a bit theatrical and liked to dress a bit flamboyantly. It's a classic example of being too quick to judge or label someone who looks or acts a bit different from the expected norm and getting it wrong.

Peachy I find that fascinating actually. I am a bully magnet too. I also had depression in my early 20s and have eating issues. The (very few) people I do have close relationships with also tend to be complete emotional screw ups. Good people but with issues. I have often wondered if it is something about me that attracts specific types of people or if society at large is full of emotional screw ups. I still don't know the answer to that.

I have, up until recently, thought of myself as being easily able to put myself in others shoes. I have just come to realise that, actually, I put others in my shoes instead. I know how I would feel or react in any given circumstances but I find it hard to imagine why others respond differently or unexpectedly.

I wasn't talking about DC or adults who had a SN or MH diagnosis or those were there are acknowledged MH or SN issues but not a diagnosis. I know it can be clear that someone has a general SN or MH issue, even though nobody is clear what the actual diagnosis is.

But I honestly don't think that everyone who is a bit different has SN or MH issue. And I think there is more pressure now for people to fit in with the norm than there used to be. And I see that as a negative thing.

I didn't fit in during my teenage years. I wasn't girly and couldn't relate at all to groups of girls talking about make up or hair or meeting up to window shop for clothes. A mild form of being different I know. But I meet adults and DC all the time who are a bit different or odd and as far as I can see that is just their personality.

I think we value certain eccentrics don't we?

if you are happy and outgoing and quirky then people are fine, they love it.

OTOH if theya re a bit shy and quiet people give them that sideways look and nod of teh ehad and isolate them completely from their social circle. It does seem only certain sorts of eccentricty are OK- entertaining eccentrics.

Even then I have watched school parents laugh with someone who has bipolar and on an up and ignore the minute they go down and need help: it can be very 'only if it suits us'.

The town i come from has a name for itself becuase of it's eccentrics. Or as they are known (sorry about this) 'specials'. People say 'oh but they brighten the aplce up'- as if that is all that matters.

Not the fact that at least one has obvious uncared for dementia 'hotpant Granny', one LD 'Elvis', one die as a result of his MH needs being unmet, another developed them in response to his sibling's death..... now I moved away (I suspect you can see why) but it really was as if these vulnerable people were there to serve a need and give people a giggle above all else. Was horrible.

"Meh is a virtual shrug of the shoulders. It means the poster either isn't bothered by the topic or thinks the topic isn't worth discussing, i suppose it can be contempt for the OP too. Problem is, by only posting Meh - i've no idea which it is...."

I don't think it can be either of the first two because to be bothered to write it TWICE you'd be joining in the discussion, so must think it worth discussing, and presumably also be botherd by the topic. So, I deduce, it must be the latter.

OP, I agree with you. I personally know people very well who have fought and fought for a diagnosis/label for their badly behaved children. generally without getting any satisfaction.

However, it is also improtant to remember that some 'odd' people might actually benefit form someone realising that their oddness meant they required additional help in some ways.

So, I think you are right...sometimes :)

There's a massive difference between being a bit odd and an SN, I'm a bit odd DS has AS - they're not comparable at all.

People who don't know me well, don't realise the extent of my oddness at all, because it's not affecting my everyday life...well I suppose it does a bit, but not massively, if you see what I mean.

I have a 'thing' about phones for instance, I put off phone calls to all sorts of places because I dislike it so much, but I can do them and do when I absolutely have to.

I have a few minor sensory issues and I dislike being touched, so I hate going to the hairdressers and have a massive dentist phobia, but I go to get my haircut because it needs doing and I'm working on the dentist thing. I also avoid certain foods because of the texture - but I can do that, I'm an adult and I can choose not to buy things, refuse them politely if I'm offered them and so on.

I'm also a bit of a hazard in certain social situations as I tend to say the first thing that pops into my head even if it's not what people wanted to hear - but I'm an articulate adult who can then manage my way out of that, lol.

I'm badly organized - but again it's something I'm aware of and can work round it.

DS can't work round any of his issues, he doesn't just find thinks difficult, he literally can't do them and can't work out a way to get round that.

Odd doesn't cover DS at all, although to people who meet him infrequently it might do.

Lesley I get that to an extent but before a dx the person still has the Sn- just undiagnosed. MN typically is a place where parents might land at that 'mildly worried' stage (and the typical age for problems to become obvious) and is somewhere where they can get info and signposting.

Generally I find that by the time a parent flags a concern it's become a significant worry for them anyway. Beyond the little bit odd satge. Signposting them towards the triad might alert them or it might reassure them but better that thana thousand posts saying 'you know your DD best hun xxxx'

Oh aye, my point...rofl

It's all very well saying, why can't people just be a bit odd? Why does everything need a label? But, if the 'oddness' is causing problems and it must be to be noticeable - then IMO it's usually more than a bit odd.

What is with the members with SN famillies etc assuming this thread is a personal attack on them when it isn't??

meh

Nc sounds familar.

AD in females (I assume you are) tends to be different (often not always ) than in males and comes with a bigger 'social acceptability'- nobody knows why but ti si thought that the ways girls are socialised in our society- lots of role playing etc- is exactly right for how you deal with ASD at a low level anyway. So girls learn coping skills but still feel different and then it can implode a bit later on with ED etc.

The diagnosis rate in females is 1@4. It is not thought ASD is necessarily rarer in woemn, just not picked up so much. I once read an article by someone who advocated assessing everyone presenting for ED for ASD, and that made sense.

I know with the bullying I have massive difficulties processing that not everyone is a nice / innocent / naive / uncomplicated as I am. I can't really beleive that people behave in such ways so leave myself open. I am actually lucky as the latest person to target me has moved to me from several others and our social group has encircled about me in a protective fashion as they are aware. I still spent Saturday evening sat on the same wall I sat on two eyars ago to teh day before getting upset about a compltely different bully though, which was depressing (I do ahve a reason to be in that spot at the same time each eyar, not just a weirdness! Even we take part in that attracts a lot of polictical horseshit of the type I cannot fathom).

I try and set aside things to DH to analyse sometimes now but sometimes (as in this weekend) he can just get annoyed with said bully and deal with using the 'shut up or piss off' method (looking forward to outcome of that next week ! Luckily I have been told I will not be left alone with bully so am safe I think). Mostly though i think I have learned and then it's all kicking off agin and I woner if I have a target on my head saying 'inadequate fuckwit? never mind, just aim your hatred HERE' on my forehead.

If you want to chat off board about it NC feel free to message me.

Tabulah that phone thing is REALLY common amongst parents of asd kids, hear it all the time. No idea why!

I know why I don't like it...can't speak for anyone else like.

I'm fine if I'm phoning a close friend or my mum or someone like that, but if I have to phone - oh I don't know, the school about something. They can't see me and they don't know me and I get really anxious that I'm not going to get across what I want to say properly - that I'm going to say something wrong...for some reason it's massively important that I can't see them.

Because I know I'm compensating for not being able to see them and them not being able to see me, it becomes really important that I know exactly how the conversation is going to go, which in turn makes me more anxious about it and I almost rehearse a speech, lol.

Of course phone conversations don't work off a script and then I don't know what to say, I can't rely on expressions, so that makes me more anxious about it and I then do say something stupid...

I know that the person on the other end will never even think of it again after I'm off the phone, but it really bothers me.

It's almost like I don't find verbal communication reliable? I need the facial expressions and body language as well?

I'm not as bad if someone phones me - I think because I don't have time to get into the vicious circle of overthinking it. Though sometimes I find it really hard to have a phone conversation at all if I've been concentrating on something else, there's a bit of a lag while my brain catches up - I don't think that's just me though, lol

Snap (if that sounds as If I am being odd agreeing I have posted about it on MN before)

For me what i think is happening is I have to triangulate emotions / meanings: word + tone + facial expression- pull any one and I am lost. I can make call if on spur of moment- eg a letter comes in and I do immdiately- otehrwise no, maybe to Mum or Dh but not even friends I have had since comp (27 years!). Bizarrely I am FINE taking schools and temped as a receptionist for years and always did really well.

I am a bit odd
My DS has SN

See, I can tell the difference.

Oh I do it fine if it's something that's urgent, or has made me really angry - so actually school do get lots of calls from me, ranty ones, rofl

I've done reception stuff as well, I didn't mind that because there almost is a script, actually in some places there is exactly that, down to what tone to say things in, lol, I can do that fine.

Actually I'm not as bad if words are missing, I'm ok at facial expressions and body language by themselves, it's definitely something about not being able to see them for me.

Though awkwardly - the idea of anything with a camera like skype also terrifies me.

Maybe I have to be physically close to people...as long as they're not actually touching me of course, rofl

People can indeed be "a bit odd" and fine.
Some will have undiagnosed MH issues, some will have undiagnosed neurological/development issues such as ASD or Aspergers though.

Knowledge is greater now, diagnosis is more accurate and if someone is "odd" and unahappy then perhaps that "label" will given them an insight into themselves and the all important support.

I have Asperger Syndrome - diagnosed as an adult after wondering why my life had been so difficult.

On the interweb when a parent is saying "I am worried" then I will wonder if there are underlying issues. In the same way as a HV I will listen if a parent says "I am worried about my child". It's not "labelling" it's seeing if there are underlying issues not being considered.

"if the 'oddness' is causing problems and it must be to be noticeable - then IMO it's usually more than a bit odd!

You see I really disagree. People can be odd or a bit different and it may cause them problems because of other peoples attitudes or bullying (Obviously odd if they can't cope with ordinary things is different and a problem). But it doesn't automatically mean there is something wrong with them like SN or MH issues. Some people are just different.

For example one friend who I have known for years. Works in a professional job and copes with life fine. But she has the lowest need for friends/social interaction of anyone I have ever known. She is happy and in fact wants to spend most of her leisure time alone. And when not working would easily go a few weeks without seeionga nyone. When she is in the mood she does enjoy being with people and has got a great surreal sense of humour,

But even though she has very very little social interaction outside of work, she doesn't have SN or MH issues. Her social skills are fine and she doesn't get anxious at mixing with people. She just prefers being alone nearly all of the time. And I know some people who know her think she is odd because of this.

And i have repeatedly said that it is not just people on MN I have heard assuming someone who is odd has SN or MH issues - I hear people saying this all the time at work. Sometimes they are right but sometimes I suspect they might be wrong.

And it is not just in response to people saying i am worried about my child, either. I have heard people say this about adults they come across in a work situation.