to worry nursery is overfeeding my ds?

[MamaChocoholic]

ds1 is 3.8 and we used to to provide a packed lunch, while nursery provided morning and afternoon snacks.

now they have decided to provide breakfast, morning snack, lunch and tea (at 4pm). we saw a sample menu and I worried that
(1) he wouldn't want dinner when he got home, when we normally eat together each night
(2) that the menu was high in salt and sugar.

I talked to the nursery, and they have restricted him to pudding with lunch but not tea. a friend also reassured me that her dd has this number of meals at nursery and still comes home hungry.

new regime has started this week. last night ds was too full to eat with us. today he woke at really grumpy, and I wonder if that relates to not having eaten for 15 hours. he had breakfast with us, then snack (he doesn't remember what), lunch (curry, rice, carrot sticks, apple pie, custard) and tea (crackers, cheese, strawberry milkshake, fruit) at nursery. he has come home too full to eat again, and his belly is hard and distended (honestly, I'm not exaggerating).

perhaps because he doesn't get puddings at home, or much sweet stuff except as treats he is loading up on them now they're available at nursery? it certainly seems like he's eaten too much, and I am dreading another grumpy morning if he wakes with low blood sugar. I also miss eating with him in the evenings.

I want to go back and talk to the nursery again about portion size, but the first time they acted like I was a bit mad tbh, and said other parents were happy not to have to cook for their dc at home (so their dc's entire day's food would be between 8am-4pm).

before I go back to them, dp has suggested I ask MN. so with apologies for the length of this post, AIBU to ask nursery what they can do so he comes home hungry for a small tea with his family?

agree peanut, I would rather he had no puddings, but couldn't do that to him. he does love fruit, so I don't feel too mean saying to substitute one pudding for fruit.

Rita, that's reassuring to hear, thank you. I am hoping he may be eating more just now with the novelty of it, and will naturally reduce, but I also suspect that it would be enough to remind him not to eat too much.

Actually, MamaC, my dd used to eat all her meals at nursery and then barely eat once she got home. I reckoned that she got all the calories she needed during the day and so stopped stressing.

My ds now goes to the same nursery, eats everything going and then eats more than his big sister when he gets home.

Different appetites.

He just prefers nursery food to home food

When my ds(10mo) goes to nursery I don't feed him as he has had 3 meals plus snack. So only 7oz bottle before bed. Why would you need to feed him again? They are not over feeding him - you just don't necessarily need to feed him again

:looks sternly at HoHo:

I think you are overthinking it.

You think he is overeating at nursery, and not listening to his appetite, yet he is listening to his appetite enough when he refuses supper at home, so he must still be self regulating to an extent.

"but natation, do you really think it's right he will go from 4pm today till 7am tomorrow with no food? could you eat nothing for 15 hours and wake up happy?"

Well, why don't you see? Let him decide. Don't try and second guess it. Let him decide.

You say you don't want him to think its "normal" to have two puddings in a day. This of course depends what pudding is I know, if you are talking a massive serve of treacle pudding and custard or something fine but otherwise, why not? In teaching this message you may end up making the pudding seem like forbidden fruit.

Sure, don't serve 2 "puddings" at home but if they do at nursery, he'll probably burn them off. It doesn't sound unhealthy, and he doesn't have a weight problem, so what is the issue really apart from eating together?

Nothing terrible will happen if he plays nearby while you and DH eat and chat. The main thing with the eating together thing is that food is seen as a sociable thing, table manners are learned, conversation takes place, etc. As long as he observes you doing this, he will still learn those things. And it sounds like you still have several meals together as a family.

TheLainey, I don't think it's right for him to go that long without food (15 hours). it may be why he was so grumpy this morning, but will wait and see how he is tomorrow before being sure on that. but I do want us to sit and eat together as a family. it's a something important to me. do you not eat as a family or does your ds only go a couple of days a week? come January, our kids will be in nursery 5 days a week, I will not be happy to only eat together at the weekends.

re going 15 hours between meals overnight.
DS does this, tea at 6 and then overnight till 10am breakfast in school hols, no problem.
He was doing that at 3 too, now he is 5 and still likes his long nights.

TD you are possibly right. there are things that I can idealise about family life, and perhaps eating together is part of it. but if he's playing, the dts are less keen to sit in their highchairs too, so the whole family meal thing really does fall apart.

nursery's idea of pudding is something like apple tart and custard at one meal and chocolate muffin at the other.

It's the same in all nurseries though and I think it's fair enough... You may pick him up at 5 but some parents might not pick up til 6 or 6.30 and then still have to drive home. But the nursery can't be expected to serve different meals at different times and different quantities depending on whether that particular child is going to have a meal at home or not.

Look at it this way, by sitting and eating with the other kids he is still getting the experience of learning to sit round a table and share a meal with others. Just not always with you!

On nursery days I just look at what they have had for tea and how much (it says in their diary whether they ate it all/had seconds/didn't eat much) and adjust what I offer them at home accordingly- sometimes just some fruit, sometimes crumpets or a cheese toastie (mine are 3 and 15 months).

cheese that is a good way to view it - the learning to eat socially at nursery. however, your kids do eat something rather than nothing when they get home. (hope that cheese toastie has marmite in it though!)

I guess I will see whether the morning grumps are repeated tomorrow.

mama my ds currently only goes 2 days a week, but i know that he has eaten well in the day, plus with the milk before bed it is usually 12 hours without any food (i count milk as food) so for me as he is not waking not a problem. Perhaps as he gets older I might give him a snack when me and dp eat our evening meal

I still think it's the wrong time for a big tea, but will it be easier when the dts go as they will all have eaten? I would really want a family evening meal like you do. Can you change hours to get him before 4? Or I would even consider changing nursery to childminder. Make sure you explain to them how important family t is to you too.

I am surprised you are so fussed by the 15 hours overnight no eating, I would have thought that was fairly normal....12 hours sleep plus eating an hour before bed and an hour after waking?

At ds' nursery they serve a fairly light tea so that parents can eat with their kids at home, I have asked on occassion that he has extra tea as if I am picking him up at 6 he no longer naps in the afternoon so falls asleep in the car on the way home.

I find it a PITA when picking up late (6pm), both dd at school and ds at nursery are absolutely exhausted and would normally be in bed 6.30/7 pm latest and I have to cook and serve a meal as well as all the bedtime stuff.

My kids do seem to eat all day long though, neither are overweight, both are fairly tall for their age, its all decent food not much junk so I am not bothered.

I guess I'm more like talking than you littleducks :)

I enjoy cooking, eating, and seeing my family eat what I cook. the dts will eat the same menu as ds, but at 1 year they eat little and often anyway. I can't change hours, and it would be such a shame to change childcare, as we have in so many ways been happy with this nursery until this change.

I will see if he's grumpy again in the morning. am amazed that there are all these children going 15 hours with no problem. we normally eat at 6, bed at 7, and are back at the breakfast table by 7am, all ravenous!

if he's grumpy, and if I still feel this strongly about the evening meal, then I will talk to nursery. they have raised their fees to cover this, and I shouldn't be paying more to be less happy. Rita said above that they should be able to give them smaller portions without hassle, so I will request this.

When I was home full time and so in full control of all meal times, sleep times etc. The kids would eat at 5.30pm and then bed at 6.30/7 and awake at 7 and breakfast at 8am.

My kids have done that since they stopped bfing at night so under a year I think.

I have never noticed them being grumpy due to low blood sugar tbh, but mine get super grumpy through lack of sleep so I guess I prioritise the early bed before anything else including daily family meals.

My DD's at 4.10 and 3.2 both eat at home at 4.50/5pm. they would be a nightmare waiting till 6 and then would be overtired to eat.

When mine were at the CM and had a massive tea at 4ish, they would have a banana or some oat cakes or toast if they were hungry again when we got home. Often they did go through though to the next morning with nothing (or just a cup of milk)

We eat breakfast together at tea at weekends at c.5pm

All this talk of grumpiness when he wakes up in the morning, and being too full/not wanting to eat at 6pm to eat with you makes me wonder if this is a simple case of overtiredness rather than overfeeding?

My dd2 used to have 2 full days at nursery. She has never eaten more than 2 full/decent meals a day. So if she has a cooked lunch for example, including pudding, she would never eat much at dinnertime, regardless of afternoon snack size.

If she has had a busy day/is tired/has eaten a lot, she will either decline food at teatime/family dinner time, or have a nibble of fruit and half a cup of milk.

In your position I would say let him join you at the family dinnertime, but just for the social aspect. if he will accept a cup of milk/hot chocolate or light snack then even better. :)

I do think 4 pm is too late for the nursery tea. My ds's nursery would do a light tea at 3, which was ok usually, but they do give too much sugar imo.
If he wont eat after nursery try giving him a cup of milk-this should help the nighttime hunger/ grumpy mornings.

Mama, I've often wondered if we were in a similar line of work, and now I am pretty sure we send our DC to the same nursery!

DS has apparently eaten decent lunches the days he's been in since the beginning of the week and the new regime and didn't want a huge amount of tea with us in the evening. We've done BLW from the start, so I am fairly relaxed about it. He'll eat to suit his appetite and, over the week, he eats a balanced diet, so, say, even if he ignores pasta one night and just ate the fish and peas with it, he gobbled up his pasta and pesto tonight. My DS is a bit younger than yours. Perhaps the novelty will wear off a bit with them all eating the same and he'll go back to normal? Also, as I am sure you know, children need much more fat in their diets than adults.

I think just keep an eye on things and see if it settles down as your DS get used to it.

What time does the nursery close? Maybe they have tea at 4pm because so many of the children do not go home until near 6pm. At our nursery, most children are picked up between 4p and 5pm, we serve tea at 3.30pm, we can't really serve it later, even if it suited us, we serve it at the best time for the majority of the children.

I think if you sign your child up to a nursery, you have to accept the decisions of the nursery to set times and menus. Of course there is a bit of give and take on both sides, but put yourself in the position of your child - every day they have to miss the pudding all the other children are having, it's not possible for a 2 or 3 year old to understand their parent's insistence that they are excluded from eating the same food the others are having, put yourself in the position of the other children who might actually want instead what the child having an "alternative" menu is eating and they equally cannot understand why they are told no they cannot have it.

My DS (nearly 2) goes to nursery 3 days a week. I never mangaged to emulate the nursery routine on his days at home as it's just not practical, so on nursery days he eats far more. He doesn't seem hungry when he's at home though.

So on nursery days he has brekkie, snack, lunch (11.15), tea (3.15) and snack (5pm). Pudding is often fruit. He then has pretty much a full size meal in the evening with us at normal time (6.45). With me he has one less meal.

It doesn;t bother me as he's not overweight, and has a good appetite but I can see him self-regulating.

I'd try and relax about it and see how your routine adapts.

I think you could maybe speak to nursery to see if his food could be reduced a bit at 'tea' to see if it helps.

BUT, I just wanted to add my expereince of the eating-together-as-a-family thing. Once they get a bit older and go to school/clubs - forget it! I used to be quite hung up on it, but not any more. We probably all eat together as a family twice a week, maybe three times. Just because of after school stuff, and we don't do that much, but:
Monday - Brownies 6-7.30pm
Tuesday - I go to a spin class 6 - 7.15pm
Wednesday - spin again
Thursday - nothing! We eat as a family, about 6pm
Friday - Beavers, 5-6.15pm.
Saturday - sometimes eat together
Sunday - def eat together.

My dc are 7 and 9. My DH won't eat at 5pm, as it is too early, and I agree.

So most of the time the kids eat together, and dh and I later, sometimes together, sometimes not.

As they get older it is just the way family life goes, and you will either have to eat at 4.30pm or 7.30pm!

I hope you can sort it out for all of you - you sound like a lovely family, trying to do your best.

You talk about the rising levels in obesity but the irony is you could end up with a fat child if you try and make him eat when he doesn't want oo just so you can have a meal together. He is listening to his body and you need to listen to him imo.

He's probably just tired from being at nursery imo. He's saying he's not hungry so listen to him. It's quite hard to over feed a toddler ime - they just stop when they've had enough , which is what your boy is doing (unless it's a bag of sweets!)

Give him a drink of milk as soon as he gets up to take the edge off of any hunger he might have and maybe a smaller breakfast as he is going to have a snack at nursery.

I think it's important he eats what the other kids are eating at nursery and you need to back off just a bit.

If his tummy is distended is constipation a possibility?