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Original poster

to be fuming at sexist Christmas Presents?

475 replies

WomanlyWoman · 02/10/2011 15:40

I attended my first PTA meeting the other night, during which I discovered that the pta have bought Christmas presents for every child in the school. Nice, right? Then I realised the presents were different according to gender, the older children get books, the younger ones such as my child, in reception, get crafty things from Yellow Moon. Great, except - the girls get flower presses, the boys get cars.

This has really p-ed me off bigtime. For one, my daughter likes cars, car was one of her first words, she adores Lightning McQueen and doesn't seem to realise that it's meant to be for boys. So what message does it give her about herself when she sees the boys getting cars while she gets a flower press? Admittedly she would probably like a flower press too, but that is not the point. What about nature loving boys? Why are these children being given the message that active dynamic machines are for boys and pretty, passive things like flowers are for girls? A nature theme for all of them or a transport theme for all of them would be fine by me, but this just seems so wrong.

I'm very shy by nature and I hardly know any of the other parents. The pta meeting itself was quite an ordeal for me, so I didn't speak up at the time. I thought it was pointless because the presents have already been bought. Why make myself unpopular, so soon, when it's already done and dusted.

Then I started thinking, it's only October, there may be time to send them back and order different ones if enough parents express an opinion similar to mine. Not sure how to go about it though. Opinions and advice appreciated.

OP posts:
herethereandeverywhere · 03/10/2011 20:19

OP YANBU. I too get ground down by the constant divide of pink/frilly/passive and bright/action/active of girls and boys toys and equipment. Recently we visited Chatsworth House and the toys in the shop were divided into two neatly colour-coded shelves. Pink with fairies for the girls and blue with cars or footballs for the boys. Girls had skipping ropes, boys had cars. This divide has bothered me since I was 10 years old when I was told I wasn't allowed to play football in school be because I was a girl. I got a petition signed by all but one girl in my year, still no joy. So the battle-cry is ingrained for me Smile

That said, given the particular circumstances of you being new to the PTA etc, I'd bite my tongue this year and plan my tactful intervention for next Xmas. I'd also keep a general eye on gender divisions so I could step in earlier to suggest alternatives going forwards. Good luck!

YoFluffy · 03/10/2011 20:46

A friend's 14 year old daughter plays for Manchester City girls team, she's a fabulous player. Her male counterparts receive a free private education paid for by the Club - the girls don't, they're obviously not as worth investing in. That's blatant sexism and discrimination, that's worth fighting...

Getting all het up over little things like presents completely trivialises the whole thing IMHO, especially when (at a guess), most of the children are probably likely to be delighted at their gifts, and they've been given voluntarily anyway.

YoFluffy · 03/10/2011 20:50

@WoTmania I thought my post was simple to understand? I simply don't believe a few presents that may not be to the individual taste of a child will determine her (or his) life course and convince her (or him!) that they can't be what they want to be or do. Or that they're lesser than those who received different presents. To suggest otherwise IMHO suggests we are those mindless, simpering females who simply don't have minds, opinions or convictions of our own.

Uppity · 03/10/2011 21:10

It's funny how using the racism example is considered a reducto ad absurdum.

But why? What's so different about making assumptions about someone because of their gender, to making them because of their race?

I know that one is considered OK and the other is considered outrageous (rightly) but why do we think that is?

Uppity · 03/10/2011 21:14

Of course a few presents aren't going to influence anyone, no-one's said that.

What they're saying is, the constant, drip drip drip message of "this is what you're supposed to like because you're a girl/ boy, is what influences people. If you only hear the message once, it's not going to influence you. If you hear it every day, of course it will influence you, all of us are influenced by our environment and culture.

PootlePosyPerkin · 03/10/2011 21:25

As you say that this was your first PTA meeting, you obviously have not played a part in raising the money being used to buy the gifts. Therefore, it is not up too you to criticise them. If you had donated the money yourself or even worked hard with the PTA throughout the year then your feelings would (or should) probably be considered.

For this year, you should just bite your tongue & teach you daughter to be grateful for every gift she gets, whether she would "prefer" it or not! What do you do at birthdays? Return everything with a flower on?

giyadas · 03/10/2011 21:32

Why would you think the OP does that Pootle? Did you not read the OP's 13:16 post? I recommend it, SWBVVR.

Uppity · 03/10/2011 21:39

Read the thread PPP the OP has already answered your question

spiderpig8 · 03/10/2011 22:00

trishawisha 'Whether my child (or any child) likes the present or not is also not the point.'
But IS the point.It is the whole point!!.The PTA want to buy presents that the children will like.Not what the parents want.Not whar the teachers want.WHAT THE KIDS WANT!!!!!

Uppity · 03/10/2011 22:04

What about the girls who won't like the flower press and the boys who won't like the cars spiderpig?

They're not buying presents they'll like, are they?

halcyondays · 03/10/2011 23:00

No, but no matter what present they buy somebody won't like it. I guess they are just trying to find something that most of them will like. I have 2 dds and I don't think they've ever complained about a present, they'd be happy with a flower press or a car. Maybe children should just be grateful that somebody has been kind enough to give them a present and if they don't like it they could give it away.

swallowthree · 03/10/2011 23:06

Doesn't your PTA have anything better to spend money on than Christmas gifts ? Call me scrooge but I thought PTAs were to support education and buy things the school can't afford. Sounds like a right waste of time and effort.

scottishmummy · 03/10/2011 23:15

youre wildly over thinking this.badly.harmless presents
and quite gracious to give each child a pressie

Uppity · 03/10/2011 23:18

Yes OP, stop over-thinking.

Commence under-thinking immediately.

Or you could just give up thinking at all. After all, why bother.

Dawndonna · 03/10/2011 23:20

How many people missing the point completely does it take to get to sixteen pages?

scottishmummy · 03/10/2011 23:27

oh go read a good conspiracy or some other hard done to tale like wifework,get teeth into that as well

this is over thinking and middle class angst
genderisation?good god no
madeuppicus dribble more like

giyadas · 03/10/2011 23:33

Grin Uppity

KatieMiddleton · 03/10/2011 23:45

Whatmeworry you asked the following:

Which bit is twaddle, pray tell - that we commonly gender differentiate, that men and women are different, or that you resorted to using Godwins Law (or whatever the race-card equivalent is)?

Well firstly I didn't use Godwin's Law. Nor did I play the race-card because that means something completely different, ie using my race to obtain some sort of actual or moral advantage. Which obviously is not what relevant or even possible in the context of this discussion.

Other than that the whole of your post was twaddle, with perhaps the assertion that the sexes are different. But as you didn't qualify it with physically different then I have to say I can't agree with that point either.

The whole point I and others are raising is that these children are being treated differently because of their sex. Gender constructs are being used to enact that prejudice.

I really don't understand why someone would actively go to the effort of differentiating the two groups when it would surely be much easier to just not.

KatieMiddleton · 03/10/2011 23:52

Addressing all the posters who say this is too small to worry about I'd like to make the point that this battle is one that can be won. There are many sexism battles that cannot by indivduals or that have been waged for years because they are just too big.

I think if you can make a difference then you should. If no one ever questioned small injustices things would never improve. I'm not advocating being unpleasant, insensitive or holier-than-thou when doing it. Quite the opposite in fact.

If anyone needs to see sexism and discrimination against women is alive and well why not head over to employment issues or legal issues or even relationships? Plenty there every single day.

veryconfusedatthemoment · 04/10/2011 00:12

Really cannot read 395 messages at the moment but I don't feel you are being unreasonable. I am tired of pink for girls, blue for boys and corresponding subject matter. It really sucks. Not sure why the pTA is buying gifts for each child but that's another matter.

WoTmania · 04/10/2011 07:53

YoFluffy - I think you are doing women down. Of course one present won't make a difference but it's just the tip of the iceberg and will probably be the first of many little reminders that society regards boys and girls as different. To object doesn't 'suggest we are simpering females who simply don't have minds, opinions or convictions of our own.' By putting a foot down now, while they are young, about all the small things hopefully means that in the future they will be less swayed when they are told that girls are less good at physics or engineering so not to bother with the A' level etc. and Equally boys being pushed away from things like nursing cos they're nurturing occupations and 'girls are better at that'

earlyriser · 04/10/2011 08:08

Yes, and all the girls should just put up and shut up. What a lovely message to give them, one they will undoubtedly need to fall back on time and time again throughout their lives.

spiderpig8 · 04/10/2011 08:55

men and women have anthopologically very different roles in life. So why do some people have such a hard time accepting that they would be born with attributes and preferences to suit their natural role, claiming that it's all down to society's conditioning.

Meteorite · 04/10/2011 08:56

The PTA are accountable to parents though, surely?

"If you had donated the money yourself or even worked hard with the PTA throughout the year then your feelings would (or should) probably be considered."

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 04/10/2011 08:57

Do you know? You only have to look at a thread like this to see how easy it must be to 'divide and conquer' women. They do it themselves. Not content with giving a viewpoint, it has to be embellished with scorn and the omnipresent jibes like... "I can't understand the posters who..." or "For all the posters who think that ". Really, does that ever work? Does the message get spread farther and wider with each stinging rebuke? Or does it just alienate those you want to convince, who read such posts (or don't) and don't bother to engage?

Some women make their comments very personal and lose credibility in so doing. The same women read the posts of other women and instead of looking for the common ground, deride the poster for their differences of view, calling in reinforcements as necessary. That's pathetic... and I'm truly saddened to say so but... so like a woman to do that. Hmm

If somebody chooses to focus their attention on the more toothier issues, eg. curriculum changes so that girls can choose as boys do. How is that not beneficial? The more voices that would help that change, the better. If someone, who understands and agrees equality, feels that a present is just a present and that their own influence exerted over their child will have a greater reach... then who the hell is anybody to say that they are wrong?

One of the loudest battle cries appears to be to challenge behaviours... well that challenging goes across the board and I'm going to call it where I see it. There are some clever feminists around who know how to influence positive change effectively... and there are some very vocal, beligerent 'kettles' who will never have that power.