To think 5p for each carrier bag is a rip off

[AuntiePickleBottom]

i just seen notices from the 1st October every shop in Wales has to charge a minimum of 5p per carrier bag, even the paper ones.

Now I guess that I could take my own but I don't think it is very hygienic

The 5p does go to charity - Macmillan in our case. It's also legislation sent down from the government, not implemented by stores. I'm sure head office would love for us to carry on advertising on a billion plastic bags!

If you're really worried about your take away food, just pay for the bag. They'll still be there!

Sorry, can you tell I've had to deal with dozens of rants about this today? Just take a bag. If you forget, buy one. Everyone goes home happy!

aries you gave a great big schpiel about plastic bags and how awful you are and this is why you support the legislation.

Paper bags are included in the legislation and so I wondered what you had against them.

*they are, not you are!

whoops.

Get impression shopsa ren't chuffed as every assistant says 'remember your own after the weekend, don;t want to pay for new ones!'

But you know what- DH and I are buggers for forgetting our bags, we do all tehr est- recycling etc and have plenty but we all too foten pop into to do the shop on the way back from somewhere or forget, and this will make us remember. So- it works.

Unpa1d you numpoty, they just replace the bags LMAO, it's not a life sentence

Aaah well, thanks for pointing out the error of my ways sardine.

I was just chucking in my tuppence worth about disposable carriers - my "great big spiel" as you called it. I think it's worth pointing out wherever possible, and this seemed as good a place as any. It's a shame so many people don't know about/ignore the catastrophic potential of plastic pollution. Now you mention paper bags they are not as environmentally worthy as people think they are, given that paper is often bleached and dyed to within an inch of its life, and frequently covered in a plastic veneer, so the material doesn't degrade quite as nicely as is often perceived. I'm not sure anyone is asking you to reuse filthy bags for food, but in any case, 5p isn't a huge amount is it? Or is it a conspiracy by the warmists again, as DM readers like to call them.

No-one is asking me to do it, aries, I don't live in wales.

I just think that the legislation is a bit too far-reaching and could well have negative unintended consequences (as these sort of things always do) - and meanwhile the biggest generators of waste and polluters get off scott free.

People have been coming onto the thread slating the OP and worthily saying how they support this legislation but given that everyone is going on about plastic bags and the weekly shop it is obvious that they haven't necessarily had a good think about the full range of the legislation and the potential consequences. And the fact that is some cases this is a straightforward tax rather than a "discouragement" as they are billing it.

I think they would be better off charging much more for bags at larger retailers, and leave smaller businesses alone, especially hot food vendors. That might have an additional benefit of encouraging people to use local businesses rather than supermarkets. And will avoid a lot of extra litter and food debris on the streets especially after the weekends and school lunchtimes.

Interesting to see what happens with clothing retailers and the like when this all kicks in.

No, I think they would be better banning plastic bags altogether TBH.

For all uses? Or would you allow them for some?

Thinking about blood bags and catheter bags and things like that.

They use a lot of plastic in medicine and most of it is single use.

Might be worth taking a look at that.

And a lot of waste disposal bags are plastic.

What do you use instead - is the problem - and one that the scientists are grappling with I think. Problem with plastics is they're so damn useful.

There are some rubbers and other plant products that are looking hopeful. It is hard though. I suppose things will hot up in that department as the oil starts to run out/become more expensive.

Sorry for multiple posts.

I do think that from a practical POV it would be good to start restricting the oil for vehicles and save it for producing plastic products which are very important and for which there are no current real alternatives.

I also wonder whether retailers will be allowed to increase all of their prices as as to absorb this charge and continue to offer bags "free". Thinking about clothing retailers and the like. Or is there something in the law that says the charge has to be explicit and per customer.

Anyone know?

You seem very bothered by it Sardine. All I'm saying is it's really not that complicated and other countries like Ireland and Portugal seem to manage fine. We could too. I doubt any law would apply to things like medical supplies. I live and work in very close proximty to the sea, and if you could see the number of carrier bags floating around in it, often miles from shore, both on the surface and just below, you would be shocked. Anything done to reduce that has got to be a good thing. Hasn't it?

And as for the not living in Wales thing, well the Assembly government like to trial things first. Like the smoking ban for instance. Only a matter of time...

And I agree with you about the restricting of the use of oil thing. Peak oil is approaching and all that.

I'm not bothered by it - I always take my own bags when I go shopping and supermarkets around here charge for bags already.

I just think it's very interesting legislation and wonder how it will pan out in reality. I think that aspects of it are going to be problematical and may have unforeseen negative consequences. Like the smoking indoors ban initially resulted in a big increase in waste on the streets, and of course many people are still unhappy about people smoking outside. But those things weren't considered when the ban was settled on IYSWIM.

I think that some retailers are going to try and find a way around it by building it into their base pricing. I don't know if they will be allowed to do that. But if they are - if it is a loophole - then all that will happen is the situation will continue the same as at the moment but everyone will pay a little more for everything they buy.

Thinking especially "high-end" (hate that term) retailers. Somewhere like an expensive clothes shop that at the moment wraps the item in paper and then puts a snazzy sticker on it then puts it in a super-duper bag isn't going to start asking customers who have just spent £100s for 5p for a bag. I wonder how they will get around it - or maybe they won't...

Interesting!

In Ireland I suspect the posh shops use paper carriers to get around the law - would be good if someone here could confirm.

Well I say "always" - sometimes I forget! And although I have a bag in my handbag that I take around with me I sometimes forget that too.

Still I am fortunate that 5p is neither here nor there for me.

I think they will have trouble changing retailers habits if anything - especially department stores, posh clothes shops, that sort of thing.

Gosh, silly me. I thought this was a thread about carrier bags

There aren't really any posh food shops! But none use paper bags that I know of. Everyone just has bags or crates, its the norm, you just do.
Clothes shops/department stores/chemists etc use paper bags.

Actually if you just look around Sainsbo's or Tesco's, there are more and more people who have brought in their own bags in the last few years, because of their "drip drip" campaign. It has been quietly successful. People used to look at you like you were weird if you brought in your own stuff. Now you can sense the pursed lips if someone grabs a loads off the checkout. Maybe there's a long term plan.

I use the sainsbo plastic bags as bin liners. So if they charge, I'll have to buy those instead. Net net no difference to our households bag usage.

Does anyone know how to get crates from sainsbury?

Also, the worst culprit is sainsbo home delivery who seem to wrap every item in its own bag.

use biodegradeable bin liners then and actually contribute to the effort?

No posh shops using paper bags to get around the law as far as I'm aware...although tbf, I don't generally shop in 'posh' shops! Paper bags are exempt, yes, and clothes shops stopped using plastic bags when the envoirnmental levy was introduced. Plastic bags without handles are also exempt, so deli bags, bags for fruit are still used with gay abandon - I will never, ever comprehend why people use a plastic bag for one apple, or double bag a couple of bananas. I've worked in retail for 10 years (lucky me...) and most people accept that they ave to bring a bag or pay for one. You will still see a lot of people juggling a huge armful of groceries because they refuse (arf) to pay for a bag, which is fine by me.

There are the odd few arseholes who when asked if they would like a bag for their ginormus shop reply 'Well, only if you're not going to charge for it!' in a huffy manner.

I take great pleasure in replying, 'But it is the law,ma'am/sir'.

The levy was originally 15c, and was raised to 22c as the Minister for the Environment felt that people had become acustomed to paying 15c and didn't mind so much anymore, whicjh I felt was reasonable. I almost always have a bag in my handbag, otherwise I juggle shopping home.