To think 5p for each carrier bag is a rip off

[AuntiePickleBottom]

i just seen notices from the 1st October every shop in Wales has to charge a minimum of 5p per carrier bag, even the paper ones.

Now I guess that I could take my own but I don't think it is very hygienic

unpa1dcar- I was on holiday in Gwynedd. Very nice it was too! Also unpa1d, if you use carrier bags for dog poo, nappy sacs are loads better and you can get 200 for a quid. If you want to be really green you can buy bio degradable nappy sacs for a little more.

What happened to that study that showed that disposable plastic bags were actually better for the environment than alternatives?

Dont pay a pound, asda smartprice/tesco value do 200 nappy bags for about 30p!!

I'm very much looking forward to keeping a mcdonalds paper bag and taking it with me when I have another

I should think that the study was carried out under a very narrow remit, and didn't actually take into account the main gripe against plastic carrier bags, which is that they very easily get out into the environment and end up tangled round vegetation, on beaches, in the sea, in the stomachs of animals and marine creatures etc. Fabric bags do not do this. So many animals mistake plastic for food, including seals, birds and critically endangered marine turtles. This blocks their oesophagus and they choke or starve. Moreover tiny, degraded shards of plastic act as magnets for pollutants and get into the food chain, starting at the very bottom. This is causing infertility and disease from the bottom to the top of the food chain.

Given that in large parts of this country, there is a good chance that any discarded plastic carrier bags will end up in the sea, this is not something I am prepared to contribute to, so I reuse cloth bags. It's a no brainer, as someone upthread said.

DH works in an upmarket supermarket and has endless customers moaning about paying for bags. Quite a few have cottoned on that the flimsy tiny sandwich bags are free, and so will put an entire weeks shopping in loads of them.

Seriously. Pay 5p. Surely it is better than carrying twenty tiny sandwich bags home and looking like a twat? Or, y'know, use a bag on wheels or a cloth bag, or even a backpack. If Aldi customers can manage it, I'm sure these customers can cope.

I love my bag on wheels :) I'm using it tomorrow to take emergency food supplies to my student little sister, and I used it yesterday to get a huge bag of potatoes and veg home from the greengrocer. In fact, I have two. One folds up into a shoulder bag and has insulation for cold stuff, and one is the proper old school metal frame type. I do an online supermarket shop once every 8 weeks or so, an approved food shop once every three months or so, and the rest comes home on the bus or walking from either the local row of shops or the supermarket.

We do still end up with too many carrier bags, but that is down to me making too many impulse purchases, and tbh if I can afford an impulse purchase, I can afford an extra 5p.

Beyond Limits- I like your thinking but I have had too many thumb-in-poo moments to buy the really cheap nappy bags! :)

My Mum and grandmother always took shopping bags to do the shopping. I remember being fascinated by a stretchy string bag in particular. I really don't know why people can object to just taking a bag with them to do the shopping.

Ariesgirl explains it nicely.

Sounds like a good idea to me. It would make me remember my vast collection of reusable bags every time I went shopping instead of relying on the freebies at the checkout. I don't have a dog so I can't even use the poo picking as a reason

I like that everyone is concentrating on the weekly shop and plastic bags scenario, and carefully glossing over the greasy take-away in paper bag scenario

The supermarkets I use already charge for bags so for me the difference would be in things like picking up some lunch while on a client meeting, in a bag that is almost certainly going to be paper and unlikely to be reused.

I do feel that aspects of this legislation will have unintended consequences, and make life that bit more difficult for no apparent reason (in many situaitons it will not be anything to do with reuse and simply a tax).

I think they should make larger stores charge for bags, maybe exempt hot food. And take a long look at the waste businesses generate with packaging (including supermakets).

ariesgirl what is your beef with paper bags?

From here

"An unpublished report from the UK's Environment Agency found that when compared to a traditional plastic bag, a canvas or cotton reusable bag would have to be reused a total of 171 times to offset the higher carbon emissions. The same study found however that the average cotton bag is used only 51 times before being thrown away."

These things are never straightforward. There is no simple "best". All options have upsides and downsides.

well I have had my cotton bags for years and use them not only for shopping, so they definately are more environmentally friendly.
I have never seen a cotton bag hanging high up in a tree or floating in the water.
it is also about the number of bags: for the weekly shop we use crates so no bags at all, where at least 10 plastic bags would be needed. ridiculous.

just ask for your takeaway in a plastic bag and stump up the 5p, you skinflint.

Its not just about carbon emissions.

Why would you ask for a plastic bag in preference for a paper bag? That really does defeat the purpose.

mousy how do you carry the crates home from the shop?

stoirin the legislation is designed to stop people using "single use bags" - not to tax them on the ones they do use. That is what they have said anyway.

However the fact they are applying this charge to single use paper bags for hot food does make me wonder whether there is something else going on.

And meanwhile there appears to be no attempt to tackle the wasteful and damaging practices of big business.

foldable crates with wheels

That's just a really ugly shopping trolley

"Keep this handy trolley in the boot of your car to make shopping trips easier"

???

I wouldn't. But you're the one going on about greasy takeaway bags.......

It works perfectly well here in Ireland, its second nature to use your own bags, and I have some that have done way more than 171 uses.

In ireland, someone said upthread, paper bags are not included in the legislation.

Why on earth would I turn down a paper bag and demand a plastic one instead? That is a really odd suggestion.

In fact it was you who said upthread that in Ireland paper bags are not included in the legislation

I usually take my own bags and am happy to pay if I forget. Raw meat I buy is usually wrapped up, most of the stuff I buy is overpackaged, have never felt the need for a special bag for raw meat. Surely if you are someone who is fussy about different things going in different bags (I like all fridge stuff to be together to keep it cold) then you just have a selection of bags with you like I do. If you normally need 3 bags then you take 3 bags. Free supermarket bags have become increasingly thin and useless anyway, at least you can carry a decent amount in a reusable bag.

whats not to follow? Paper bags aren't included, since that makes no sense. But if you're waiting for your government to make sense with legislation, you're waiting a long time.
Use your own bags or pay for the ones they give you. If you don't want to pay 5p for a paper bag, ask for a plastic one instead, at least it will be useful.

It's not my government, it's the welsh.

Paper bags for hot food are included in the legislation. I think that is a bit silly, may be counter-productive and seems to go against what the legislation says it is for.

I don't see what there is to take issue with in that.

I don't have a beef with paper bags? Should I have? My beef is with plastic bag litter and pollution. Charging for plastic carrier bags will dramatically reduce this simply because it will mean less of them out there. This has been proven in other countries. I don't understand how this can be a controversial issue . Just remember your shopping bags. How hard can it be?