to think taking your child out of school for a week before doing 11 plus to study is a bit wrong?

[11plus]

and excessive?! My daughters friend is being taken out the week before so she can revise all day? wtf?! I mean, it is really important to us because our schools are crappy so grammar school is the preferred option, but, it feels a bit wrong, and I dont know why but I feel kind of cross about it, its not cheating, but it feels like it is, and why should she need to/ surely if she has to study excessively she is going to struggle when she gets in the school...that said, i dont think she would because i think she will pass it anyway and it is surely just putting too much pressure on the girl. All my friends seem to have gone mad, theyre not allowing their children out to play or have friends round, its crazy!

happyoverhere no joke, there's nothing productive to do in the immediate run up to the 11+ other than relax. The time for shoving a Letts Test under a child's nose is long past.

Ladymuck it's sad that there's any 'frenzied situation' in schools. It's all the parents doing of course and it makes it so hard for the kids. What you about contextual data is interesting because there are exactly those sort of suggestions being mooted by HTs right now. I hope it gets introduced.

SueNarny - you often find that the 'desperately poor' Asian families you speak of are actually pretty well educated. Only the most motivated, determined and ambitious people from developing countries will make a go of immigration. Children from these families are already at an advantage by having parents who are prepared to put in a collosal amount of work to improve their circumstances. And they also tend to bring their children up to be more compliant than uk kids, which makes learning easier for them. Other cultures also have a respect for and a belief in the value of education that is missing from the genuinely educationally and culturally impoverished w/c Brits.

"there's nothing productive to do in the immediate run up to the 11+ other than relax"
I know what you mean but it really, really does depend primarily on the child, the type of exam they are taking, and how much practice they have had up to that point. Trying to top up an already well-prepared child is probably a waste of time. But you can definitely do a lot with a bright child who has never seen a VR or NVR paper in a week.

YANBU this kind of desperate, competitive coaching really pisses me off.

TBH coaching your child to pass the exam highly enough to get in, and then continuing to coach them throughout school just so they can keep up with everyone should not be allowed.

Grammars are full of children of well off parents who fork out for coaching, when they should be full of the naturally academic from whatever walk of life they happen to be, because that's what grammars are supposed to be for. Giving the truly academic and gifted a chance, and kids like this are stealing their places.

Ladymuck I'd bet my bottom dollar that this child has been coached already (whether by parents or a tutor) to within an inch of her life. This isn't the mindset of a parent who's winging in with an ounce of last minute help.

Agree with RIZZO, it's fevered.

I've been to enough 11+'s now to witness some strange behaviour from parents, but still, a week off !!!!

keep yours off too. It sounds sensible to me!

just think though - stopping smoking for a week would easily pay for a weeks tuition if people wanted to

I am not sure everyone WANTS to go though

Not all poor people with bright children smoke or smoke twenty a day. Love the stereotype.

People shouldn't have to pay for tuition. When I was at primary school they did loads of verbal reasoning and practice papers in P6 and P7. That made it fair, as every child got to practice and weren't reliant on parents helping them prepare,paying for tutors etc. If schools don't prepare them properly, then that's when it becomes unfair on children who don't have the opportunity ity to practise outside school.

"Grammars are full of children of well off parents who fork out for coaching, when they should be full of the naturally academic from whatever walk of life they happen to be, because that's what grammars are supposed to be for. Giving the truly academic and gifted a chance, and kids like this are stealing their places."

It's impossible to level the playing field in order to select those who are the most academically gifted.

And removing these children from the normal school environment degrades the educational experience for the children left behind who aren't quite as gifted, but may still be extremely bright and certainly able to benefit from a grammar style education.

Which is why I think grammars should be abolished and all children should go to extremely well funded comprehensive schools, with small classes and thoughtful and fluid streaming.

Better for everyone.

There's no extra money to be derived from abolition though titty.

hi, OP here, thanks for all the responses. I'm a little more chilled about it today, I just, when I heard that the Mum and Dad were doing this I was a bit shocked, especially as the girl has already been tutored since yr 4 and has been working on practise nearly every day, what does she need to do another solid week for?! yellowstone, what kind of test does your la do, ours is verbal reasoning, and while i agree that you shouldnt need to revise, they do need practising because i think that an adult that had never seen one of these before would struggle with some of it...its also about the timing and keeping the speed up, some children may be able to do the questions but take a lot of time over it. Ultimately though I do think it comes down to it feeling a bit unfair, I wouldnt dare have the cheek to take my child out of school for a week. In our school they are given no help with 11 plus, it is up to the parents provide that help. It used to be that it was the academically bright that got into grammar school, but most children are tutored to within an inch of their life now...this means they get almost ridiculously high marks pushing those who by rights should have got into a grammar school down the line if theyre not lucky. To be honest, i probably could have afforded to get a tutor, but it felt a bit unecessary...I do worry now though that if my child doesnt get in and the tutored one does I'll be talked about badly for not getting a tutor. (I got this from a 'friend' who had had her child tutored for 4 years before the test. My son did one practise 2 months before the test and got 95% in it without ever having seen one before so I figured he would be fine, he did practise for a few weeks before, but he never really got better because he was already good, when her son got into the 'top' grammar and mine got in to the 2nd best which was in its own right an amazing school, she was quite mock upset for me, 'oh dear, well i do feel for you, i mean its alright for us we could afford a tutor but i understand you have more than one child to consider and my situation is different to yours, oo, yours should have got in because hes actually cleverer than mine, if he had just had a tutor'...grrr, bugger off i thought.) Also, what if her child doesnt get into grammar school? it is hard to get in and if she doesnt shes had so much pressure heaped on her she will feel just awful. She already has an elevated opinion of herself as she has been claiming to be clever than my child! yellowstone i too was a bit by suenarmy's comment!

She is doing what she thinks is best for her child. Whether or not you agree with that the child is still going to be learning, just not at school. The child is hardly being kept home to catch up on a week of daytime telly. YABU.

OP, this is a friend? Who needs enemies? You only thought bugger off? Wow.

We do english, maths and VR. We're not in a grammar area so there's no pecking order as such and good comps in several directions.

You're absolutely right that the child will feel infinitely worse if she doesn't get in with this kind of home background and additional pressure though tbf, regardless of the outcome, I don't think her life chances sound great.

Best of luck to your DD.

The only fair way to do it would be for a different sort of exam each year so that there were no past papers to practise. TBH, these sort if threads show to me exactly WHY the grammar schools should be abolished!!

Actually OP, I'd be tempted to ring up SS, get her a visit once a week! (over-anxious parent).

She's not allowed to keep the child off without advance permission from the school, which would almost certainly not be forthcoming.

Ah well, if there's no extra money, better to hive off the cleverest kids and give them the best, and bugger all the rest.

was that a joke yellowstone? about the ss?
If my daughter was doing a test like your children i wouldnt worry about her doing any revision either because she is perfectly good at maths and english, vr is a different skill i think. And youre right about the pecking order thing, our local comp is horrendous so if you want your child to go to a decent school you have a real fight on your hands. headfirstforhalloween...i disagree that she is still learning, she already knows what she is doing, she is practising questions over and over obsessively again...have you seen verbal reasoning questions, its a bit like keeping your child off school to do suduko and quiz books for a week, the learning in school is completely different, she will miss a whole week of maths, english, pe, music, art, geography, history etc.

I'm not sure that it isn't too late by now - last minute cramming. We have kept a certain level of work up but think DS would have totally freaked if we'd even thought about doing that. Agree that the 11+ requires a measured approach but if it is necessary to take a child out and put in that much effort is the child really up to it...
Of course might be eating my words in a few weeks but really do not think intensive coaching should be required at this late stage. How many children are really going to be up for all day everyday tuition... it's (over) saturation. Might be okay for 18 and 21 year olds but give a 10 year old a break!
Also, it means it's not a level playing field for everyone - pretty sure the schools would get pretty hacked off if loads of children miss weeks off school at a time - come to think of it where we live it would mean 1/2 the class would be missing for all of this term....

Grammars are funded less well than comps on the whole titty, they certainly don't get more. I was simply pointing out that there won't be extra funding available by abolishing grammars, to provide what you want: 'extremely well funded comps, with small classes'. Might be a nice idea though, in theory.

yes gazzalw I really don't think the girl needs to be oversaturated like this, I know her quite well though and feel she would be fine to cope with grammar school..just dont think she needs the extra week as well.

Isn't the point of keeping her off so that she isn't over-saturated, burdened etc. She doesn't have to do schoolwork, she can do some 11+ work, if necessary, and she could be focussed and relaxed (depends on the child).

We did this with my son. Primary school lukewarm about him and about the 11+. No tuition in school.

At that age; just past 10, likely to get in a state if he thought he was working too hard (lazy boy).

Doing great at grammar - the absolute making if him. Glad I approached it the way I did.

What if it was a once in a lifetime audition at The Royal Ballet School or Manchester United? Bit of a rest? Miss sports day or outdoor pursuits trip? Or is that somehow different?

Merle 'practising questions over and over obsessively' is not likely to relax this kid. The mum sounds crazed.

Don't see why they should miss a day for a Man U try out either.

Not completely joking OP, though the SS are over-stretched and have got better things to do with their time. But strictly speaking I think her behaviour would put her in their remit. I hope the school gets to hear and puts a stop to it though.

I think your bothered in case she has an advantage that your own child doesn't.

I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling that way, but you might ass well be honest rather than dressing it up as concern about the girl "burning out."

And if the comps ARE so shit where you are, I'd have my child out working its arse off too. All this nonsense about should be naturally academically gifted. The VR tests have techniques and tricks that can be learnt, and practise to build speed up. So do NVR tests. Ditto the maths: practise for accuracy.

Both my dc are at a selective grammar. They weren't tutored, but I got practice books and made damn sure they could do the stuff and at a quick enough speed!

suenarmy that is a very offensive comment. Please do tell how not smoking would reduce my outgoings since I have never smoked in my life. Sorry for the digression OP, just curious as to how that would work.