to think taking your child out of school for a week before doing 11 plus to study is a bit wrong?

[11plus]

and excessive?! My daughters friend is being taken out the week before so she can revise all day? wtf?! I mean, it is really important to us because our schools are crappy so grammar school is the preferred option, but, it feels a bit wrong, and I dont know why but I feel kind of cross about it, its not cheating, but it feels like it is, and why should she need to/ surely if she has to study excessively she is going to struggle when she gets in the school...that said, i dont think she would because i think she will pass it anyway and it is surely just putting too much pressure on the girl. All my friends seem to have gone mad, theyre not allowing their children out to play or have friends round, its crazy!

Cross posted with a few other dissidents.

Can't understand why so many people are against this idea.

How is it any different from athletes training 7 days a week.

Olympic year doesn't come around and the athlete thinks "Oh I might try out for the Olympic team" They have to train to get the best results.

Normally I am opposed to taking children out of school. However, this is a really big deal and will have an impact on the girl for many years to come, so in the circumstances if she felt she needed more time to revise, I would do it. I suspect passing the 11+ would be of more importance to her than anything she will miss at school during that week.

It's the 11+, not the Olympics though.

God help the mum when she gets to GCSE's and A Levels, she'll have a vicarious meltdown.

Please could someone tell me what they think there is to 'revise' for the 11+ ?

I would n't do it, prefer to play these things down, but could see advantages for some. Such as if the anxiety levels in the run up among the children taking it (derived no doubt from their parents) are likely to trigger stress and underperformance. Most of the private school 11+ are early January around here, soon after the holiday period, perhaps to avoid this situation.

bit over the top
but hey ho

who knows what their situation is

You can't really revise - more practice vr/nvr and exam technique.

Errr what is there to revise; are you having a joke!

Maths, verbal reasoning, non verbal reasoning; past papers to practice, timing to perfect; 80 odd questions in under an hour. Loads and loads to revise.

no its practice
not revision

I disagree with it because I am not looking at it in the context of "one child doing what they need to do to get the best results". I am looking at it from the perspective of "what would be workable if every parent took up that strategy". Imagine if parents notice that some children are taking off the week before the exam, in order to do their best. Other parents may decide that's a good idea and allow their own children to do that. You could get to a situation where the majority of children are taking off the week before the exam, in an effort to do their best. In order to gain an advantage in this new context, parents may decide to allow their children to take two weeks off school. At what point does this become ridiculous? I think it's unworkable, very self-focused and hyping things up massively, encouraging others to follow suit - I also agree with the points made by Yellowstone.

Also with the Olympics analogy, I would imagine that an athlete would do better by adhering to a training program in which their skills are gradually and consistently developed over an extended time period - rather than putting them into an intensive boot-camp type environment in the week leading up to the Olympic event!

Yes! the athletes do have a steady training program. But they also have trials and more training as the event becomes closer.

Does the school do a lot of practice to prepare them for the eleven plus or not? When I did it at school, you spent a lot of time doing practice papers etc, so there was absolutely no need for tutoring, doing papers at home etc. In fact if you had needed tutoring in order to pass, then I would say you'd probably have struggled at a grammar school.

halcyondays, perhaps that child's school aren't doing practice papers etc. Many primary schools in my area are hostile to the grammar school and do nothing to ensure their pupils do well in it. no practice, no explanations about it, nothing. In those circumstances, I don't think it's unreasonable to spend time doing practice at home, and I simply don't believe people send their children in having done no practice whatsoever, even all the ones who didn't have tutoring.

I wouldn't let my daughter stay home as I think it would stress her out, but I would if I realised everyone else was playing it down but secretly doing lots of practice which is what I think is often the case (it's the 'we only did a few practice papers' which gives it away- lots of children from less clued up backgrounds don't do that, that's why they continue to be under-represented in grammar schools).

The poor child will be so bored after a week of this. Totally OTT in my opinion.halcyondays, I don't know about other schools but my daughter's primary did one 11 plus morning practise and that was it.

Blimey, this thread makes me SO glad we don't have the 11+ here!

Depends if it is in one of the areas where schools don't help with preparation. Equally it is one way of keeping her dd out of a frenzied situation created by other girls and parents - if one of her friends is getting wound up, then a week's separation may not do any harm. I would assume that the parent knows their child best and is acting in their best interest.

i disagree with the AGE OLD " if you need help you will struggle"

i am clever - grammar etc, just shit at tests.. horses for courses, as a parent you do anything you can to get the best for your kid, in some areas this is passing the 11+ as hte other schools are shit

YABU

Given that friends of mine have taken their children out of state primary school 3 years before the 11+ and sent them to a private school with the express purpose of giving them the best chance to get into a grammar school at 11, I think it's not unreasonable for this parent to try to optimise her dd's chances by taking her out of her state school a week before the exam.

"It would be unworkable if every child did it"

Yes it would be.

The the system is already disgustingly unfair. Kids going to ordinary primaries are less likely to be admitted already than their academic equals who are applying after years of being taught in private schools in tiny classes, with 11+ booster sessions and private tutoring after school.

It's really extremely unfair. There's a nuclear arms race going on with tutoring at the moment. But while the situation is the way it is, I have every sympathy with your friend.

I think if a grammar school has an intake that's disproportionately drawn from local private schools then the head should be asking whether this means that children at state schools have less innate academic potential than children who've been privately education. If they don't believe this to be true and that their intake reflects the money that's been spent on children's education up to the end of primary, then they should start to 'adjust' marks according to the amount of cash that's been spent on tutoring and private school.

And parents should be given a truth serum when they apply to make them say how much they've spent!

you dont need to spend at all though.

"you dont need to spend at all though"

Not everyone has the time or ability to tutor their own children.

And some children WILL NOT be tutored by parents.

The only person I know who got all three of her children into grammar from a not particularly good state primary did loads of work with them herself. They're a very religious family whose children are highly compliant. She worked with them every day for an hour after school all the way through primary. Once she'd got them into the school of her choice she went off and trained as a teacher herself.

Hmm, tricky one. I can sort of see where they're coming from because if the primary school is anything like my dds, they give NO support at all for taking 11+ exams. And yet they manage to find the time to prepare children for SATS

Of course there are no guarantees but you just want to give your child the very best chance.

There are many parents who hothouse their children so much they burn out. MY DN passed his 11+ and is now at grammar school. Some parents were horrified at how 'little' he had done. I'm not boasting he did do a lot of preparation its just the parent who was horrified had been having their child tutored from 4 starting at once a week then and by the time of the exam was being tutored 5 times a week and working for several hours the other 2 days. IMO that was too much.

ah you always get the " we did nothign boast"

yes agree grammar schools are not equitable, but a mate who worked in one of the birmingham king edward ones was converted, seeing how many desperately poor Asian families worked hard to get their kids in, often non english speaking

maybe its a matter of priorities - the white working class dont care as much?

I didn't say DN hadn't prepared for the 11+. Just not several hours a week from the age of 4. At 4 all he did was some extra reading stuff with his mum.