Faith Schools - state funding

[pearlym]

am I being unreasonable to think that it is unfair that faith schools get 85% plus funding frmo the state but that they are effectively closed to children not of their faith?

"I think faith schools give a very positive contribution to the communities they're based in "

How so? I live in a area full of faith school - we don't feel a thing except exclusion.

Honestly - you might have been to a faith school - but you are older now and things have changed. I went to a grammar school years ago but things have changed and I might not have got in now (given so many parents get tutoring etc) . Also my younger half sister was in a catholic school (a crap one) because not in a bigger inner city.

Are faith schools good - YES - not because they are faith schools in my view but because so many parents have bought into the hype and got their children in by pretending to be the faithful and it's these very parents who are involved etc thus helping to raise the outcomes. If only we'd all do this at our local schools. Now't to do with religion - ALL TO DO with the divisiveness of our educations system. And yes, it's these very parents moaning about the religious content of the schools.

I do not agree with faith schools. Are we not a multicultural nation? At least I hope we can become one. How can that ever be achieved if are children are segregated due to religion?

You could also argue that it's unfair that faith schools in England an Wales only receive 85% funding from the state, yet often contain less than 85?% of that faith in pupil numbers. And where does the 15% funding come from? From that faith of course. So as a Catholic who used to send her children to a Catholic primary in England and where about 30% of the children were not Catholic, should I have demanded of those non Catholic parents to compensate me for the part of my church donations which went towards the 15% which came from the Catholic parish funds?

The provide a positive contribution to their communities by providing a decent education for the children of those communities, subsidised by the church/mosque/synagogue/... and its members.

Multiculturalism celebrates a diversity of cultures, including people of faith. Or is it just a euphemism for an atheist society accepting Muslims now?

Nation - yes you should have demanded that you were majority catholic (now dare tax payers in the area get a shot) and you should have also been paying for that education.

I will shout now - WHY AM I PAYING FOR ALL THESE PEOPLE TO GO TO RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS WHEN MY LOVELY LITTLE BOY WHO IS MULTICULTURAL AND GREAT AND A FANTASTIC LITTLE CITIZEN IS DENIED AND EDUCATION IN OUR AREA.

Also - why is my dh working god all hours and is is late 40's and knackered, so ds never sees him. Why is HE paying his taxes to school in our area where ds cannot go YET PAYING FOR YOURS.

Oh bloody hell, and this forum is full of people who hate benefit claimants. How ironic - just look at our education system.

There - said it.

Now justify that.

Our CofE school doesn't have addmission criteria based on faith, so children come from all religions and no religion.

I don't see the problem tbh, people of faith pay their taxes too!

Everyone has a choice over whether or not to join a faith, so everyone has the same options open to them. OP, you say that your children don't have as much choice as next door's children, and that's just not true. Your family has exactly the same choices, you just choose not to belong to a faith.

Also, the church often owns the buildings that the faith schools use, and contribute financially towards them. Therefore the church, or diocese, ends up contributing to children from non religious families.

I think the faith schools are good particularly C of E because our heritage is christian. My children don't go to one but their comprehensive school was founded by a church in the Victorian era.

GB may now be multicultural but as far as I am concerned that has been foisted upon the nation by successive governments and most people I come across are not particularly enamoured with it being rammed down our throats for the last 15 years'.

Slave and alemci - I cannot begin to comment on how I disagree - so many levels.

I do agree that we're a christian country. But then get this. My dh is from Italy - I promise you that their state education is for everyone and has far more catholicism in it that your average UK catholic school. BUT GUESS WHAT - YOU DON'T NEED TO BAPTISED TO GO THERE. YOU ARE NOT GIVEN PRIORITY TO GO THERE JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE CATHOLIC. And good on them as they do not discriminate on faith in the education system.

Our community schools don't help. I feel dh is not being instructed in culture adequately (any culture) as it's all so dumbed down.

Why do you need to join a faith - are you saying that by not joining a faith means you are not joining citizenship? You are not joining education, community, the global society or work? So faith is up there and if you decide not to (or in the case of many people, decide that kids have RIGHTS and can decide for themselves armed with knowlege - knowlege they are NOT given in faith schools or by parents) you are discriminated against.

Bloody hell -I'm deeply shocked. I don't understand my own country any more. Really I don't. i don't feel I can contribute to my ds's heritage (on my side - British) given what I've heard on this thread.

I am sad. I am sad that it's considered that my son - who is lovely, speaks lots of languages, is a considerate child, comes from a british multicultural background and who's parents pay a lot in tax is considered the bottom of the pile (not that there should be pile) in terms of education. That tells me his citizenships is not as valued as kids who have an culture from 'the book'. Yet I'm paying for others to come into our area - others who feel their kids are exclusive and should have an education that is exclusive to THEIR culture on MY money at the expense of MY child. Of course that does not make me feel happy.

Yet I'm paying for others to come into our area - others who feel their kids are exclusive and should have an education that is exclusive to THEIR culture on MY money at the expense of MY child.

No, you are not. Your LEA is obliged to find your child a school place, so that is what you are paying for. The parents of the children who are coming into your area are also paying tax, so they are paying for their own children to go to school.

You have every right to be annoyed that you can't get your child into the school you want, I completely understand that, but you don't have a right to make out that you are paying for other people's children to be educated, because you are not.

You are taking this too personally by saying that your child is considerd to be 'bottom of the pile' and 'not as valued'. It's not like that at all. It's just that certain schools have admission critera and your family doesn't meet them. It's no better or worse than children being denied a place at their parent's chosen school because they live a few meters outside of the catchment, or two meters away from the last child to be offered a place on distance criteria.

In an ideal world, we would all be able to send our child to whatever school we want and religion and catchments wouldn't matter at all. But we can't, it's simply not possible. I think that people who have a strong faith should be able to have their children educated within that faith wherever possible. Faith is free, moving house to get into catchment isn't.

YANBU. I think it is utterly dreadful that faith schools are funded by the state.

PS I forgot to mention that perhaps I should demand all those who live in the UK to refund me the percentage of the income tax and national insurance both I and dh contribute to the UK, whilst in fact we are in fact living outside the UK and I am also having to contribute income tax and social security in another country simultaneously (at least I get VFM from my contributions here)!!! So don't forget everyone who sends their children to UK state funded schools, that I am helping to fund your children's education (and health service and everything else)!!! Honestly I'm joking.

Well, I think what grates in an area I know is that the faithful have the choice of two schools and the faithless have only one. Generally the faithful will choose to go to the faith school if it is performing well and the faithless will get a place at the non-faith school. But if the non-faith school has a few great GCSE years then the faithful will swarm to that school. The faithless who live a few metres further away then have to go to an out of the area school because the places available at the faith school in those years will go to out of area faith children before local non-faith children are considered. If a non-faith child somehow happens to get into the faith school there is no guarantee their siblings will get in if they apply in a popular year. Apparently it causes a lot of ill-feeling.

I think that 85% funding is misleading. I looked into this because the church schools near to me are voluntary aided which means they get 100% funding for their running costs and get to set their highly selective admissions policies (no spaces given to children whose parents don't attend the right church much less have a different faith altogether). They also get around 90% towards maintenance of their buildings and land - it seems a tiny contribution on the churches' part to justify such blatant discrimination against the wider community.

Yanbu. There is no other public service that is allowed to discriminate on this basis.

So they get 85% funding from the state and educate children who are 100% the responsible of the state. Therefore saving the state 15% for every child they educate. Bargain!

I try not to think of it as funding schools, more each child gets a certain amount out of the pot. I would not deny any child their share of the pot because of where their parents decided to send them to be educated. If these children went to a different school they would still be allocated their share of the pot, it doesn't take from other children. Their parents are also generally tax payers

"You are taking this too personally by saying that your child is considerd to be 'bottom of the pile' and 'not as valued'. It's not like that at all. It's just that certain schools have admission critera and your family doesn't meet them. It's no better or worse than children being denied a place at their parent's chosen school because they live a few meters outside of the catchment, or two meters away from the last child to be offered a place on distance criteria."

Bullshit - I don't take is personally as it's not just my child being fucked over. It's not. It's loads and it's increasing.

So schools have admissions criteria - HOLY SHIT - and an increasing amount of kids don't fall into them.

The "best" faith school in my town not only insist that parents attend church regularly but also that parents do some form of voluntary or community work.

In other words: middle class 2 parent families with a SAHM who has time to spend her days running coffee mornings and doing charitable works.

I bet the people defending faith schools on here are the ones with children going to them.

And the people slagging them are the ones who couldn't get in. As usual.

So schools have admissions criteria - HOLY SHIT - and an increasing amount of kids don't fall into them

Of course they do! How else are they supposed to allocate places in oversubscribed schools?

What is your suggestion to make sure every child gets offered a school place?

Gwen, it's about the fairness. Why should a child whose PARENTS have a faith have more choice of state schools than a child whose parents don't?

IMO all schools should be secular. Religion should play no part in it.

I've just realised that HOLY SHIT is a great way to describe the alarmingly complicated admissions criteria of some faith schools.

My dcs go to a Catholic school which is just under 50% Catholic atm. I pay both through my tax and through the church so I don't feel particularly guilty that I am ripping a school place from the bosom of another child. The LA would still be obliged to find a place for my child if we weren't part of the church and they would have to pay 100%. I think that there are arguments against faith schools (as well as for them) but the argument that the government only has to stump up 85% is a weak one.

I went to a faith school actually GML. I slag them off loads.