To consider shopping a benefits fraud?

[jekyllnothyde]

Spent day with a friend who has v good reason for being on incapacity benefit because of her condition. also single mum with two preschool DCs and is in process of being reassessed under new disability rules. She is worried sick but also thinking while her condition is life-limiting and not made any easier by stresses of DCs whether she can realistically think of attempting to work. I really feel for her.
Meanwhile friend's has got himself switched of JSA on to disability benefits but everyone knows he is basically capable of working. He does physical work doing up where he lives and also does sport and keeps himself busy generally. Today made me really angry as on one hand someone who needs support is really trying to think how to deal with her illness and wonders if with help she could mange something while this guy is basically taking the piss and doesn't support his DD at all except basic minimum from CSA. None of my business, or is it?

the police dont want to know about 'someone everyone says is a shoplifter'.

but the gvt do want to know if you suspect someone of benefits faud

i have a releative who inherited over £20k & did not declare it (he freely admits it, he also received another £10k a year before).

it is my business to shop him or not? (nb: it is not jealously about the money - i inherited a lot more more than him & if the money had not gone to him, it would not have gone to me)

I wouldn't report him.

From what you have said,too many grey areas.

If he is innocent you could cause a whole host of problems...if not thats when KARMA comes knocking!

stabby thats interesting ,I would certainly report a mugging...but

I would keep my nose out of shoplifting food , as I wouldn't know the reasons behind it.

not saying shoplifting is alright (obviously)

if you see someone steal from a shop its obvious. if you see someone being mugged the answers obvious.

you dont know his medical history, mental health history, personal finances-you cant do because you dont really know him.

stay the fuck out of it, why on earth would you even attempt to get involved?
it isnt any of your business, theres no proof, evidence or even smoke. you cant rely on hearsay to shop people for something like that.

just get a hobby, baking?

i have a relative on benefits who inherited over £20k & did not declare it (he freely admits it, he also received another £10k a year before).

it is my business to shop him or not? (nb: it is not jealously about the money - i inherited a lot more more than him & if the money had not gone to him, it would not have gone to me)

TheReal - the difference is that you personally know that your relative got that money. The OP knows bugger all about that man.

It would be like you hearing that a friend of neighbour had a a friend of a friend who inherited £20k and didn't declare it - would you report then??

It's all chinese whispers and gossips because the guy looks normal and goes to the park and isn't working. FWIW I have a friend who didn't work for approximately 2 years. He's a nice bloke, looks normal, was able to do physical stuff around his home.

His ex-wife got the bare minimum off CSA because he wasn't working.

But he'd been a worker in a shop which was subjected to an armed robbery and suffered PTSD.

Only report him if you are certain. It's not true that nothing will happen if he is investigated and found to be genuine...they will stop all benefits during the investigation. I was reported when I first claimed after splitting up from exh and they stopped everything, including child benefit and CTC for 10 weeks while they investigated me. Yes I got it all backdated afterwards but for that 10 weeks I had nothing coming in and had to borrow money, scrounge food and delay paying my rent etc.

stabby - "It would be like you hearing that a friend of neighbour had a a friend of a friend who inherited £20k and didn't declare it - would you report then??"

no because i would not have a clue what was actually going on.

when posters have said 'it is none of your business' do they mean 'you dont know what is going on so stay out of it' or 'whatever you reliably know, you should stay out of it'?

TheReal - exactly my point. The OP has NO IDEA about this man's circumstances and is going on local gossip.

She doesn't have a clue what is actually going on.

Oh and the OP has said that she doesn't even talk to this man just nods at him in passing.

So she really really has no clue.

If you actually see a mugging or a shoplifting of course you can report on the basis of what you've seen. Tax fraud needs proof, as does the situation in the OP - proof she simply doesn't have.

this sounds awfully vindictive to me.

so he plays tennis - so what? do you know what doctors recommend depressed people to do as part of trying to recover - exercise, physical activity, maintaining routines of getting out of the house, avoid isolating etc. some health authorities even give free gym passes because exercise is such an important factor in recovery.

also funnily enough depressed people and those with anxiety disorders or other mental health issues still have dignity and pride. they don't walk around sobbing and looking a mess because just like you, in fact probably far more so, they are conscious of what people think of them and how they appear to others.

you have no clue so keep your nose out imo.

and fine if people know others are committing fraud and want to report them but simultaneously don't be under the illusion that the deserving people will be better off or pensioners will get more money etc. that's naive to the extreme. the tories are not cutting everyone's benefits and making disabled people's lives hell because of benefit fraud. it is ideological and a statement of what they think of those of us who were born with less advantage than them.

Keep your nose out. no good comes of being a do good busy body, it'll come back and bite you on the arse one day.

TheRealTillyMinto I think she should keep out of it because she knows nothing. If anything she posted was genuine grounds for suspicion, I'd say go ahead and report him. But none of it is.

I'm still waiting to hear from the OP why someone shouldn't shop her friend for claiming incapacity benefits. After all, let's look at her:

• not working
• spends time with her kids instead of looking for work
• don't see a physical disability, so she must be fine
• I don't think I like her, even though I don't know her, so I figure she must be faking it

Doesn't matter to me if her friend's benefits stop and she has no money to pay her rent or for her children's food or anything. Why should I care, right? After all, she may go without money for 8-10 weeks while they're investigating, but if she's legitimate, then she's got nothing to worry about, right?

Bet the OP would go mental if someone shopped her friend. So why can't she put her brain in gear and see that the picture's the same?

Ah, well. Might as well give up. Pointless to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Stay out of it.

You don't know what his circumstances are and what effect it would have on him.

This is why I NEVER talk to anyone about any kind of benefit/tax credit/help etc we receive.

Because of this kind of shit.

My DD has MS. She can appear OK. She has even done some voluntary work, but for two hours work she needs three hours rest afterwards. She is clearly not faking her illness because scans show the damage to her nervous system, and she goes to hospital once a month to have drugs administered intravenously to help her condition.
But if you were her neighbour you might not know anything was wrong. She certainly wouldn't tell you unless she knew you very well.
I'd think twice before making accusations if I were you.

Gawd I hope I'm not out 'choring' then when Tilly wotsits about! Bad enough with the damn security guards who are actually 'paid' to look out for thieves and vagabonds.

This thread is about Disability fraud, not blatant in yer face nicking stuff from Asda's.
Different subject entirely.

If someone is claiming something and bragging about how they got away with it then of course you report them.

If someone you don't even know appears healthy to YOU but is claiming some kind of sickness benefit then stay out of it.

It's nearly impossible to get this if there's nothing wrong with you.

I know a lady on disability benefits who does voluntary work at an animal shelter practically full time. People may think she is defrauding the system because clearly she can work full time. Except of course, she can't. As a volunteer there is no pressure, there is no expectation of when she must turn up, what she must do when she's there or when she is allowed to leave. The doctor treating her for PTSD thinks this is very good for her, sort of working therapy. He does not think she is ready to return to paid work. I dread to think what impact it would have on her if she was flagged as a possible cheat.

You just cannot tell by looking at someone.

You are allowed to work on DLA anyway if you're able. Many do. MY SIL is eaten up with rhumatoid arthritus but still works as often as she can PT. Sometimes she can't even get out of bed for the pain and she gets LRC/HRM which she relies on desperately to cover the times she cannot physically move from the house.
There is a misconception that someone on DLA cannot work either paid or voluntarily. You can be a millionaire and still claim DLA (Cameron proved that!)

Why are you considering? Just do it.

oh lord. Read the thread. She has no idea if he really is or not and doesn't even know him other than in passing.

She is just pissy because she doesn't like him and is making judgements based on literally NOTHING.

Kladd the sad fact these days is that someone on ESA has to notify the DWP if they want to volunteer. I considered it myself. However, this is likely to trigger a re-assessment, and the fact that you can volunteer is in turn likely to lead the ATOS dr at the medical to conclude you are fit for work. If your friend is on Incapacity Benefit she may find it counts against her when she is assessed and moved to ESA.

If you have mental health issues but can do some of the ordinary things of daily life like getting up, making a meal, reading a book, taking some exercise then even if your psychiatrist thinks you are unfit for work, the DWP is likely to find you fit for work. It's a travesty.

BTW I don't think ESA (means tested) is the same as Income Support Rate - it's about £25 more. For more info, Benefits and Work is a very good site.

That is indeed a travesty. I do understand that sometimes GPs don't really know what is going on with a patient. How much can they really tell in 5 minutes every once in a blue moon. But if someone is under consultant care, it a whole different kettle of fish.

In the case I mentioned I can't really say for sure what she is receiving, I don't know her well enough to know. I do know that she goes to see government dr person for assessments. You can tell when it coming as you can see her visbly worsen as it approaches. Not put on for the assessment, but regressing through the stress, anxiety and fear about it.