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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To consider shopping a benefits fraud?

129 replies

jekyllnothyde · 17/09/2011 20:44

Spent day with a friend who has v good reason for being on incapacity benefit because of her condition. also single mum with two preschool DCs and is in process of being reassessed under new disability rules. She is worried sick but also thinking while her condition is life-limiting and not made any easier by stresses of DCs whether she can realistically think of attempting to work. I really feel for her.
Meanwhile friend's has got himself switched of JSA on to disability benefits but everyone knows he is basically capable of working. He does physical work doing up where he lives and also does sport and keeps himself busy generally. Today made me really angry as on one hand someone who needs support is really trying to think how to deal with her illness and wonders if with help she could mange something while this guy is basically taking the piss and doesn't support his DD at all except basic minimum from CSA. None of my business, or is it?

OP posts:
NotJustKangaskhan · 17/09/2011 23:00

A few people have said nothing will happen if you're wrong - when actually quite a bit can happen. When someone 'shopped' my husband didn't seem disabled enough to them, all of our benefits at the time (his disability, and our housing benefit, and all other low income benefits) were stopped for over five months. Five months with bills still coming. They asked for each bit of information separately, and took weeks to assess each piece. I don't even want to think of what would have happened if we hadn't had such an understanding landlord at that time. The stress sent his health problems into downward spiral.

My husband doesn't look disabled. He has mechanical and nerve damage which means over half his body has limited mobility and chronic pain. He forces himself to do a lot of the physical tasks because he feels he's suppose to, people expect and ask it of him due to his size, and he ends up flat out for days afterwards. He also has an epileptic like condition and schizophrenia. You can't tell this by looking at him, or by seeing him out and about.

Also, the tests for disability are really hard to fake. I had a friend, who I was with at the time, black out in the waiting room during an assessment. As in keeled over, unresponsive for a good minute, took quite a while to get him to even sitting. Still was declared not disabled enough as there was not enough documentation from doctors of the condition to prove he had it.

coff33pot · 17/09/2011 23:02

Why cant ppl just wheel their noses in and deal with what is inside their own 4 walls instead of being interested in what the man down the road has.........

I have a friend on DLA who had to fight tooth and nail to get it. The money helped to reconstruct a shower, put rails up, ramps instead of steps (he did this over weeks himself out of his own benefit) he works and bloody hard but part time. It also helps with taxi bills to work because he is unable to walk far at all due to ill health. He is ALLOWED to go out with friends too, gosh how unlawfully awful to the public eye........

troisgarcons · 17/09/2011 23:03

StellaAndFriesSat 17-Sep-11 22:53:29

Same boat then, he has had several heart attacks and are currently waiting for the decision of stents v bypass. It's shit isn't it

absolutely - tho its the diabetes thats kiling him

Triggles · 17/09/2011 23:10

We take our 5yo DS out in a special needs pushchair sometimes and honestly, the people that will walk right up and stand there and say "he's too old to be in a pushchair, what a lazy boy" right to him or to us in front of him!! or even more unnecessary "he doesn't look disabled to me!" Hmm Because they can't SEE the disability, it doesn't exist, right? Okay - I'll tell the specialists that according to some ignorant stranger on the High Street, he's fine - no disability.

Good grief.

BaldPlumber · 17/09/2011 23:28

Are you a doctor? I don't think so. Maybe he has some sort of obscure food allergy which entitles him to free housing, a new car and all of the other benefits that just bring him into line with the standard of living that people without a peanut allergy are lucky enough to enjoy. On the other hand he may just be a lazy cunt who is taking the piss out of everyone else. My point it, give him the benefit of the doubt and possibly DLA as well.

littlemisssarcastic · 18/09/2011 00:15

Sounds to me like you can't abide the man, mainly due to how shoddily you believe he treats his XP, and the apparent injustice that your friend does not get enough support from the govt with her health concerns? (What does his XP think of him claiming DLA? Is she just as angry with him as you are? Are you friends with her?)

If you can't abide the man, avoid him.

Seems to me that you just want him to suffer in penance for the way your friends are being treated. Not very nice at all.

If this man is not entitled, he will find it very very difficult to claim any disability benefits. Regardless of how successful or not he is, his XP will still be in the same position, and your friend with health problems will still have health problems I'd imagine.

What is the point in shopping him? Will it make you feel any better? Especially if you shop him, and then don't notice he has suffered at all and is in fact still off playing tennis?? Hmm

Kladdkaka · 18/09/2011 00:41

Are disabled people not allowed to do any work on their homes now then? And I was so enjoying painting my house pink on my good days. :(

I got 'shopped' too many years ago when I was on benefits. Apparantly, to nosey neighbours going to the hospital for a regular fixed appointment for therapy for PTSD is the same as going to work. I never had any money stopped but the investigator did tell me that I had been followed for 2 weeks to see if I was working. How's that for a mind fuck for someone making a new start and trying to recover from domestic violence.

unpa1dcar3r · 18/09/2011 08:34

Oh and this wonderful Cameron; assume this is the same Cameron who claimed DLA (Legally) for his son before he died even though he's a multi millionaire and had very little to do with his son except for leaving him to paid private professional nurses while he went off pursuing his career?
And is it the same one who's now making every claimant not only jump through hoops but hoops of fire n brimstone?

Mind your own beeswax. Anyone who's under the misconception that DLA is easy to claim is talking out of their arses and has clearly never tried or needed to.
Oh and u can claim DLA and work anyway so it's irrelevant.

OpinionatedMum · 18/09/2011 08:57

Do you even know what he is claiming for?

Dawndonna · 18/09/2011 09:05

My DH also has an invisible disability. Been reported by spiteful neighbours too, for being a lazy bastard. He ended up in a mental health unit, and the DWP advised us, and supported us through a move to a different area. Is that what you want, all those who say report without knowing the facts, to hound people out of their homes, because in some cases, that's what happens.
Bloody Daily Fail readers make me sick.
Oh, and the fraud rate for DLA is 0.05% according to the governments own figures, less than half a percent.

You have no idea whether he is even getting the mobility component, he may just be getting the care component, it isn't all about walking and being able to do physically stuff, it's for those with mental health problems too.

indiastar · 18/09/2011 09:18

Mind your own business.

Just because you can't see a disability doesn't mean there isn't one. What if he has a mental disability and the way he copes with it is by keeping busy etc?

You might just make it worse by having officials bought in to investigate him.

slartybartfast · 18/09/2011 09:22

if he has the benefit it is not for you to question it.

mind your own beeswax

pink4ever · 18/09/2011 09:25

I have genuine sympathy for those who are ill and have to junp through hoops to get the help they need. I was in this situation a few years ago and it was horrible.
However am astounded at the posters on this thread saying mind your own business when it comes to reporting fraudulent claims.
This is not free money or comes from some big pot in the sky-its our money,paid for from hard earned taxes and I dont want it going to lazy arses who think they are entitled to it.
Lets not pretend that benefit fraud doesnt go on-it goes on plenty where I live believe me! I have members of my own family(lots of them) whom have never worked-they have a better standard of living than I do-.This is a fact before someone comes on and calls me a liarHmm.

VinegarTits · 18/09/2011 09:26

his situation with his ex and his children is nothing to do with you, shopping him wont make him a better father, mind your own business

pink4ever · 18/09/2011 09:28

Pay your taxes then it makes it your business.

slartybartfast · 18/09/2011 09:37

but there is saying you don't work, when you do, that is fraud, there is claiming house benefit when you rent out your house - that is fraud
or there is claiming dla - when according to your neighbours, you can work.
you DONT know what the dla claim is for. it is a stringent test.

butt out
help your friend. Hmm

VinegarTits · 18/09/2011 09:40

paying taxes doesnt make it your business

unpa1dcar3r · 18/09/2011 10:04

Pink
No one doubts that benefit fraud does go on. We all know someones brother's ex wife's sister...

But we're simply talking about DLA and disability fraud here which is altogether different.
Now while we also all probably know someones brothers...etc...who claims for depression when they sit their smoking weed all day goes on...it is in the very small minority (see above; 0.5%) and for this piddling amount others are penalised, vilified and destroyed cos someone thinks it's their moral duty to report them.

The damage this causes to a disabled person is insurmountable; loss of funds much needed, loss of home in some cases, loss of self esteem, any form in independence, mistrust of anyone wondering if they were the reporter, damage to health and well being...

Now if this guy in the original OPs thread, is claiming fraudulently then it will come back at some point and bite him on the arse without any intervention from nosy neighbours.

But please be reminded that over 99% of cases are not fraudulent at all but many get reported as such causing the distress I've briefly outlined above.

stabbystabbykillkill · 18/09/2011 10:16

I'm just going to echo what every one else has said.

You don't like this man (for various reasons) and you feel for your friend who is struggling.

And you're putting the two together - but it doesn't work like that.

Not every disability is visible - my eldest son has a severe hearing loss and I guarantee 110% if you met him you would never know.

To all and sundry he looks perfectly normal, plays sport, goes to the park with the dog, rides a bike, goes to university BUT HE IS STILL DISABLED EVEN IF YOU CAN'T SEE IT

Triggles · 18/09/2011 11:51

pink - I think the point you are missing is that the OP doesn't even KNOW if he is claiming fraudulently. She doesn't have a clue what his disability is, and she is basing most of the judgemental comments on seeing him occasionally, rumours and gossip from neighbours, and her dislike of him and the fact that he isn't working. HARDLY evidence that he is fraudulently claiming DLA.

Basically, the OP is being spiteful and nasty, and feels that she is justified to report someone as claiming fraudulently when they very possibly are not. I'd be willing to bet she'd be furious if someone reported her friend who was ill as claiming fraudulently. After all, they see her out and about, with her children, not working... maybe she's not really sick either. After all, you probably can't SEE her illness, can you? It's not a physical disability. If you can't see it, it's probably not there, right? Of course, the OP will say it's different... but it's really not.

knittedbreast · 18/09/2011 12:37

mind your own!

its none of your business, you dont know anything for sure.
maybe someone will shop you to the local psych nurse for stalking/delusions/paranoia?

bloody hell

stabbystabbykillkill · 18/09/2011 12:46

You admitted yourself that your friend said the test was "scary" - do you think the man did a different test?? Or do you think there's a standard test that the government apply?

Oh and if he's paying for his child through the CSA then they will have assessed his income and he will be paying what they recommend.

onagar · 18/09/2011 13:05

"he doesn't look depressed"

The NHS are paying for a lot of expensive experts when they could just ask you if you can tell by looking.

It is nonsense to think that anyone can just transfer to a disability/incapacity benefit. It is also nonsense to say 'shop him anyway as he won't get in trouble if innocent'

If anyone genuinely believes that then test it by getting a friend to report you. You can post back on here how it went.

TheRealTillyMinto · 18/09/2011 13:14

i have a question to the posters saying it is none of your business: do you think you should ignore tax fraud as well? what about shoplifting? what about a mugging?

in your view which things are your business & which are none of your business?

stabbystabbykillkill · 18/09/2011 13:16

TheRealTillyMinto - If I personally SAW someone shoplift, then yes I would report, as I would with a mugging.

If, however, I saw a man in the street who "everybody says" is a shoplifter then no I would not report because I would have no EVIDENCE.

That's the difference IMHO the OP has absolutely no evidence to back up what she's saying

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