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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To consider shopping a benefits fraud?

129 replies

jekyllnothyde · 17/09/2011 20:44

Spent day with a friend who has v good reason for being on incapacity benefit because of her condition. also single mum with two preschool DCs and is in process of being reassessed under new disability rules. She is worried sick but also thinking while her condition is life-limiting and not made any easier by stresses of DCs whether she can realistically think of attempting to work. I really feel for her.
Meanwhile friend's has got himself switched of JSA on to disability benefits but everyone knows he is basically capable of working. He does physical work doing up where he lives and also does sport and keeps himself busy generally. Today made me really angry as on one hand someone who needs support is really trying to think how to deal with her illness and wonders if with help she could mange something while this guy is basically taking the piss and doesn't support his DD at all except basic minimum from CSA. None of my business, or is it?

OP posts:
hayleysd · 17/09/2011 21:43

People with mental health problems don't "look" ill and depression us not something always easy to spot but I would report if I was sure and see what happens, if all is above board then no harm done.

Original poster
jekyllnothyde · 17/09/2011 21:45

Thanks whackamole. IKwym about not feeling easy about it and being thought nosy, interfering etc.
And fwiw I'm not so stupid as to think that people with mental illnesses look 'mad'. And as for DLA, I've helped my Dad fill in one of those nightmare forms. As I remember it was about being able to do physical things like walk so far, get dressed etc. What is ESA anyway? Is that what everyone gets put on under new scheme. And yes I want to help my friend at present. I see her problem she doesn't know if her condition will ease up once DCs get to school, Eldest one will start next year, but then she has no idea how fast she will deteriorate any way. She is walking still but can't go too far without being exhausted.

OP posts:
usualsuspect · 17/09/2011 21:48

Lets all report anyone on benefits ,just in case

ilovesooty · 17/09/2011 21:53

Yes, let's. After all, no harm done when people report not knowing all the facts. Hmm

Original poster
jekyllnothyde · 17/09/2011 21:59

Ok I asked didn't I? Yes, the welfare state is a wonderful thing but if no one bloody cheated then D Cameron and his mates wouldn't be trying to stuff the people who are desperately in need. I get some benefits WTC and CTC. I just think he should be trying his best to get a job/helping his ex more not playing tennis and such like while his ex gets basically no help from him and my other friend is genuinely wondering whether it is possible for her to work again.

OP posts:
Tianc · 17/09/2011 22:03

DLA is Disability Living Allowance. It can be received while working and is to help towards the additional costs of being disabled, for mobility or personal care.

ESA is Employment Support Allowance and is replacing Incapacity Benefit. It is an out-of-work benefit and is paid to some people who are not able to work due to illness.

ESA comes in two flavours. For one year only, people who have the right record of NI contributions can receive a higher rate. Those who haven't been in work recently, and everyone after one year, receives the lower rate means-tested - which is exactly the same amount as Income Support. There is therefore no financial advantage to being on ESA over Income Support (which is what JSA-recipients are put on after 6 months). What ESA does do is pay your pension NI contributions while you're ill, and the mandatory "work-focussed activities" are different for ESA recipients than for JSA or Income Support recipients.

ilovesooty · 17/09/2011 22:04

ESA - Employment and Support Allowance - replaced Incapacity Benefit quite a while ago.

ilovesooty · 17/09/2011 22:05

Sorry - X post there.

mumnotmachine · 17/09/2011 22:06

There are still people on IB at the moment, but everyone on IB will be going through reassessment over the next year or so.

EdithWeston · 17/09/2011 22:06

If, after reading this thread, you still think you have enough information about his circumstances - then report it.

If he is a genuine claimant, he should have nothing to fear.

If he is fraudulent, then he deserves what is coming. The activities of fraudsters both take our money from its proper use, and make life so much harder for those who really need help.

mumnotmachine · 17/09/2011 22:07

All new claims since Oct 2008 for people incapable of work due to illness are on ESA

midnightservant · 17/09/2011 22:08

Do you know that he isn't on JSA? He could be claiming DLA as well as signing on. It is possible to have time to both job seek and play tennis.

mumnotmachine · 17/09/2011 22:08

And you can report anonymously, but the fraud team would rather have contact details as they can contact you then if there are any queries

Triggles · 17/09/2011 22:13

ok... not all disabilities are PHYSICAL. sigh... so while you may have had to help your dad fill in a form regarding him doing physical things... some people have OTHER DISABILITIES that are perhaps not physical. Again, you are letting your frustration with your friend's situation cloud the issue.

You have no idea what type of disability he has, so you have no idea if he is claiming fraudulently. If it's for mental illness of some sort, and you stir up trouble unnecessarily, do you think that's going to help him in any way? Of course not. But hey, you judge hitch your judgey pants up a bit higher and wade through the muck, no problem.

You have literally NOTHING to base this accusation on other than the fact that you see him around doing things and that you don't like him and you think he's a bad parent. As you have no clue regarding why he is claiming disability, you have no clue if the things he is doing are contradictory to his condition. So what if he's playing tennis? Unless he's told them he can't walk, it's really not a big deal. You know, people with mental illness are allowed to play tennis and do physical things - it's actually encouraged. Yes, it's not nice that he isn't helping his ex more, but let's face it - that's hardly uncommon or against the law, is it? It certainly doesn't add up to fraud. And while you might think he should be trying his best to get a job, if he has some sort of mental illness, perhaps his physician is better placed to know whether or not he is ready to work or not. Unless, of course, you know his complete medical history and you have a medical degree.... no? yeah, thought not.

Honestly, if you spent as much effort in helping your friend find support and assistance as you do nosing about in this guy's business, you'd be much better off.

letmehelp · 17/09/2011 22:17

"To consider shopping a benefits fraud?"

It's late for me Blush on a Saturday night, but I read that as the OP saying she felt people who could shop while on benefits were committing fraud, which I thought was a bit harsh TBH

Tianc · 17/09/2011 22:39

"If he is a genuine claimant, he should have nothing to fear."

Not true. His benefits can be suspended while they investigate, leaving him on below-subsistence amounts for months.

It's a bit like saying I might as well accuse you of robbing the till - because I think your new shoes look too expensive. If you're suspended without pay during an investigation, you'll not be impressed.

By the way, I need a wheelchair for outdoors distances and can't sit fully upright for long periods. But I still managed to get up a ladder to do a tiny job on the outside of the house recently. My neighbours will have seen that: what they won't have seen is me lying down for much of the next few days to recover.

electra · 17/09/2011 22:42

You probably don't know all the facts. I'd have thought the application process is even more vigorous at the moment and he'd have to have a doctor's support.

Just because he can work one day does not mean he could work the next necessarily. This benefit is for people who can't hold down a job for any length of time because of spells of illness. He may have mental health problems.

StellaAndFries · 17/09/2011 22:47

My dp doesn't look ill but is currently trying to claim DLA due to his unstable angina, looks are very deceptive, today he looks fine, tomorrow he may be grey and having another severe attack. You can't judge everyone on who fit you presume they are.

GypsyMoth · 17/09/2011 22:48

Bingo anyone?

troisgarcons · 17/09/2011 22:50

Meanwhile friend's has got himself switched of JSA on to disability benefits but everyone knows he is basically capable of working. He does physical work doing up where he lives and also does sport and keeps himself busy generally

It's nigh on impossible to get a new DLA adult claim through. Frankly, you'd have to be dead, and thn they'd tell you you'd have to put wheels on your coffin and you'd be mobile. So for your 'friend' to get over to DLA he would have had a Drs assessment which is rigorous.

Personally - I think the Dr is more qualified than you to assess whether the person is incapacitated.

troisgarcons · 17/09/2011 22:52

StellaAndFriesSat 17-Sep-11 22:47:36

My dp doesn't look ill but is currently trying to claim DLA due to his unstable angina, looks are very deceptive, today he looks fine, tomorrow he may be grey and having another severe attack. You can't judge everyone on who fit you presume they are.

Good luck (sincerely) my OH can't walk more than 20 yards; 2 heart attacks, stents, HBP, Cholesterol, diabetic, open ulcerated legs - rejected for DLA.

Triggles · 17/09/2011 22:52

troisgarcons that was brilliant - pmsl at "wheels on coffin and you'd be mobile". Thanks for the chuckle in an otherwise wretched thread. Grin

StellaAndFries · 17/09/2011 22:53

Same boat then, he has had several heart attacks and are currently waiting for the decision of stents v bypass. It's shit isn't it :(