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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Private companies running classes in state schools, DD can't go because we are poor, AIBU to complain??

748 replies

PollyPeppa · 15/09/2011 10:26

We are below the poverty line as we have 3 DC's and DH and I are full time uni students. We worked in low paid jobs and decided enough was enough and are now hoping to get better ones after university.

DD's school had just started up after school Spanish club. We sent her along to the trial session and she loved it. We had foolishly assumed there would be a concessionary rate (as there usually is with after school clubs) but there is not as it is run by a private company so we can't afford for her to go again.

I feel this is very unfair to offer this as only children whose parents can afford to send them can go, I think it creates a divide in the 'state' system.

OP posts:
LtEveDallas · 15/09/2011 12:36

Sorry I made you cringe Aitch Confused - what should I have said then when she asked why XXX can't join her at ballet lessons when she knows that XXX wants to go?

Maybe if the OP feels a 'kick in the guts' she should have stayed at work (or would my 'kick in the guts at not being able to stay home with my baby DD not be as bad as the OPs just because right now I have more money than her?)

scaryteacher · 15/09/2011 12:37

'Did some stae schools dell their playing fields.

Even scaryteacher may object to some deals done.

And Scary if you are a teacher; in what way are you scary.? I think we should be told'

What have I done to be singled out?

I don't approve of schools selling off playing fields as I don't think there is enough sport in the school day in the state system. I think there is a lot to be said for the private school model of classes in the morning, and sport each day.

I taught twilight (after school GCSE and revision classes) for 3 evenings a week, and ran a club on a fourth, none of which I was paid for apart from salary, and in fact, I subsidised those classes.

I am 'scary' because I do not take any crap. My nickname at one point from one set of students was 'the bitch queen from hell', and others used to call me Mum by mistake and spend their breaks and lunchtimes in my classroom which I kept open for them. Go figure.

If the Spanish classes were anywhere else, then the OP would have to pay. The language school is hiring the space, just as Universities hire out their space in the holidays for summer schools, and the money benefits the full time students. What is the difference?

southmum · 15/09/2011 12:38

Dont they still teach a foreign language at Junior and Secondary school?

AitchTwoOh · 15/09/2011 12:38

you don't seem very sorry, lteve. Grin you seem kinda aggressive on this point, in fact.

Insomnia11 · 15/09/2011 12:39

I'd love to see all kids being given equal opportunities to have access to extra curricular activities, regardless of income. I'd like to see them taught Spanish in school time anyway, think it's an important language to learn!

I was just commenting above that in the context of the current unequal system, I don't see why an afternoon/evening class should be subsidised by the school just because it is on school premises. It's not like schools are swimming in money. DDs state school in a well off area struggles to fund resources for new classrooms when they are actually required by the LEA to find spaces for extra pupils! And as other people have pointed out there are other free or inexpensive ways of learning languages. Use your public library if you're lucky enough to still have one...

takeonboard · 15/09/2011 12:40

YABU why should your kids be "entitled" to something everyone else has to pay for?

scaryteacher · 15/09/2011 12:43

Breathe Eve!

Cretaceous · 15/09/2011 12:43

Learning Spanish is not a luxury, but they won't learn a lot of Spanish in these clubs... That's why these classes are a luxury. Every term, a new lot of children will join, and they'll never progress. That's what it's like at my DC's school anyway.

SansaLannister · 15/09/2011 12:43

YABU

SheCutOffTheirTails · 15/09/2011 12:44

Um, people on benefits pay tax too.

halcyondays · 15/09/2011 12:45

If both you and your dh chose to go to uni at the same time, you must have known that money would be an issue for a while. Plenty of families who have at least one parent working can't always afford to send their children to expensive activities either. Unless you have had a lottery win, most parents will have to say no to their children at some point .

LtEveDallas · 15/09/2011 12:48
Grin
AitchTwoOh · 15/09/2011 12:48

that's not the OP's point, though. the school is promoting the club, and hosting it. for the kids, that's pretty confusing, i think.

not much can be done about it, though, other than contacting the PTA or seeing if the club has provision for poorer kids. i do agree that if there are spare places they might be prepared to do a deal.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 15/09/2011 12:48

Electra - I think there is a huge difference between slating the OP for her attempt to better her circumstances, and telling her that her decision to go to university at the same time as her husband has certain financial consequences.

And I haven't seen anyone on this thread polishing their halos, bragging about what they can afford, or saying that only rich people should have children.

What I have seen is people saying that everyone has a budget, and you have to tailor your finances to your own budget.

For example - in the past year ds1 and a number of his friends have all passed their driving tests. Some of his friends are either being bought a car, or having help from their parents to buy and insure a car, or are being insured for the family car. We can't afford any of these options for ds1, but I do not begrudge the other families that choice for their dc. We've made certain choices during the course of our marriage that have led to our current financial position - eg, me stopping work when ds3 was born, and being a SAHM for the last 14 years. If I'd carried on working then, once we were past the point where nursery/before and after school care fees were taking all of my take-home pay, we would have been better off than we are now, and might be able to afford to insure ds1 for the family car.

If we'd decided to buy a smaller house when we had to move for dh's work, we would have a bit more disposable income now, and wouldn't be worrying quite so much about how in hell's name we are going to afford to put all three boys through university - we live in scotland so their fees will be paid, but the boys are not eligible for anything beyond the bare minimum student loan of £995 per annum for their living expenses, and we are going to have to find £42,000 minimum over the six years that they will be at university (probably more as ds1 wants to study in London).

kat2504 · 15/09/2011 12:49

Paying tax is irrelevant. This course is not funded by tax! Her tax money is going towards her DDs state education which her DD is in fact receiving. If she is a full time student she is probably not actually paying income tax. However, that is not the point here. Parents who are earning much more are also paying taxes but they are being asked to fork out extra for this club too.
This is not going to damage her daughter's education. It is a fun club to sing songs and play with puppets. That's pretty much it. It's unfortunate that this little girl would like to go but can't, but I bet she isn't the only one.

chill1243 · 15/09/2011 12:51

Scaryteacher. Thanks for responding so fully; it is greatly appreciated. I am here to learn; and you can certainly teach me a thing or two. My school days are long gone. I was not a particularly happy schoolboy bunny. But I do enjoy learning at the University of Life. Bless

Poogles · 15/09/2011 13:01

DS goes to an after school club as I work full time, the only way he will be able to attend things like this Spanish class is if they are run at the school as I wouldn't be able to pick him up and drop him wherever the course is being run. Is it fair on DS to miss out becuase I have to work and can't take him. I work primarily to pay the mortgage, although would be able to afford something like this!

scaryteacher · 15/09/2011 13:05

No problems Chill!

The problem here is that state provision is limited, and actually school budgets are limited too. If the school can use their premises after school to raise some funds which then get recycled to the benefit of all students, or to subsidise school trips for those who can't afford the voluntary contributions that are asked for to cover the cost of coaches, insurance, entry fees etc, without asking for increased voluntary contributions from those who can afford it, then it seems very sensible to me. It's painless way of raising some revenue that doesn't involve the poor parents who run the PTA having to run another coffee morning, or cake stall.

mercibucket · 15/09/2011 13:09

If you feel very hard done by, approach the head or governors. you could ask
if the school gets any money for hiring out the room and if not, why not
if the school would consider a bursary scheme from the profits of the room hire
also ask the school to make clear before the trial that it will be a paying activity. I assume you sent your child to the free trial as you thought the classes would be free, and so naturally having tried the classes and liked them, she was disappointed when you realised you would have to pay. this could be avoided by future parents/children if the costs were made clear beforehand so if you knew there was no way you could afford it you just wouldn't take part in the free trial
I run language classes but not through schools but the ones near us don't charge for their room hire. It means the people running the classes can, if they want to, charge a bit less - I have to cover my room hire, but they also can only take people from that school to the classes. It isn't a big business for most people running the classes, mine don't make lots of money, I couldn't afford to subsidise and wouldn't want to make the decision about who to subsidise. I also wouldn't offer cheaper places just because I had a free place, because I would be hacked off as a parent if I found out a class I was paying full price for was also available at a discount rate for others.

peanutbutterjellytime · 15/09/2011 13:10

But it's not a sense of entitlement when you're 9 years of age and come running out of school all excited about an after school club that most of your classmates are attending and you can't because your family can't afford it.

I live in an affluent area where "poor people" like me are a minority. I'm a single parent who struggles to make ends meet and currently can not afford for my dd to attend any of these after school activities that a large proportion of her classmates do. There is no equality here and all my dd is learning is that she's different to all the rest.

Some of the views on this thread really are quite sickening.

Original poster
PollyPeppa · 15/09/2011 13:10

We have slightly more money now than when we both worked but it is a loan that we will need to pay back. We both have a maintainence loan from the uni fund which helps.

Yes when I graduate and earn a decent wage I will be more than happy to help out other children who were in the same position as our DD.

OP posts:
livinonaprayer · 15/09/2011 13:15

Tend to think YABU.
DC school has no free after school clubs, they are all private run and they do none of them despite bringing home all the leaflets in their bookbags all the time! They ask, I say no end of story. How is this different to my DC wanting a particular toy/game and me saying no?
I can also agree that they provide helpful childcare solutions for those who are working.
I have opted for beavers/cubs for DC as these are very reasonable and do some fantastic stuff. (Obviously I know others may not be able to manage this either though)
I think it's great that you are going back to uni, but as others have said this may mean hardships for a while, but hopefully long term benefits to look forward to.

SheCutOffTheirTails · 15/09/2011 13:17

Good point, peanut

TBH I'd be more worried about the sense of entitlement of the 9 year olds who know that they are getting to do a class while other classmates can't because their parents are too poor.

Learning the apparently invaluable lesson that some people can afford more than others is quite different when what you are learning is that you can do pretty much whatever you choose, but other children can't.

SardineQueen · 15/09/2011 13:18

This all sounds very peculiar.

So they are a private company running a private class outside school time. Same as if it were in a church hall or wherever. OK.

But it is advertised in the school, (?) promoted by the school, and there was a free taster session to which all children were invited and after that they revealed the cost of the thing? Meaning that many children who really liked it will at that point have been told that actually they can't do it after all?

That is shit, IMO.

OP YANBU.

Original poster
PollyPeppa · 15/09/2011 13:19

Can I also add I have paid tax since I was 16, will continue to pax tax when I graduate and tax will be at a higher rate than before.

OP posts: