To think a school can't legally suddenly ban the headscarf for muslin girls!

[Headscarfs123]

So our local catholic school has banned the headscarf this week...disastrous for some of the girls but also against church advice that headscarfs are fine, against DFES advice about consultation and sensitivity to religious groups, against best practice as this type of change should involve the governing body? discriminatory on religious and sexist grounds...Sikh boys can keep their turbans.

Aibu to think that the school is legally in the wrong?

I'd be OK with it tbh. It's 'teh internetz'. I wouldn't engage with a subject that attracts strong views if I was going to be upset at being told I was talking bilge!

'FFS' isn't swearing at someone.

& the 'incredible' comment - any worse 'my ideas are better than yours'?

No personal attacks than I can see, but there's a report facility if you're imagining one to go with your imaginary friend.

"No personal attacks than I can see, but there's a report facility if you're imagining one to go with your imaginary friend."

The irony. Do yo u mean to come across as vile bully?

Well, I was aiming more for 'mildly taking the piss' in a non-hostile manner. But like belief, these things are quite subjective.

Sorry if I've upset you.

These threads are really eye opening in terms of showing exactly how much hatred there is towards Muslims.

Hijab is perscribed in the Quran, I've read it many times, nobody man woman or child has ever forced me into wearing it I have a large family I and my mother are the only two who wear hijab, I adhere to it more than my mum does.
It is insulting to me as a thinking, intelligent, professional woman to accuse me of not really choosing to wear it. I do choose to wear it. It is my choice.

I don't judge what other people wear, it's nothing to do with me, unless I really like something someone is wearing then I might ask them where they got it from otherwise I honestly do not give a rats arse.
A lot of Mners are more judgey than I have ever been about attire, my friends consist of men and women-who observe hijab and those who don't and those who have no religion, individuals religious practices are none of my concern.

I wear a hijab I believe it was perscribed by God.

I've never suffered loss of hearing from wearing it.

It does not cause me to overheat, I have a wardrobe filled with hijabs, in different colours and fabric to suit all seasons.

I have daughters, they will make their own choice as to attire and religion when they are old enough, I dress them at this stage of their lives and my choices tend to be practical and functional- for the avoidance of doubt they do not wear hijabs.

The laws of the land of other countries are beyond my control and have nothing to do with me and actually have very little to do with Religion. Saudi doesn't allow female drivers, this is not an Islamic issue it's a the mullahs are idiots issue, more importantly I personally have no influence on the policy and law of places like Saudi, I do not contirbute to its economy I do not live there, the country has sweet FA to do with me.

I blithely expect to be afforded the same rights as every other British citizen, I am as far as I can tell not breaking any laws wearing a headscarf.

Usually people then start saying by wearing a headscarf I am somehow refusing to integrate with British society, I'm not sure what's expected in this case. I find it rather bemusing that my choice of headgear would prevent social integration, I hold a high powered job in a high profile company, I am well liked and respected amongst my peers, I am very educated. I am not sure exactly what is expected with regards integration if this is not it.

Sometimes complete strangers talk to me in the streets, I live in an area where strangers strike up conversation, so I assume my headscarf and I don't look scary to these people.
I used to live in London and never spoke to a stranger unless it was to offer someone a hand (did happen on a few occasions), but I would think this was the same for all Londoners.

I have lived and contributed to Britain and british society my whole life, as have my family for three generations. It is home. I expect my daughters to grow into strong, independant intellectual professionals who will be a positive contribution and a credit to the country that has nurtered them and which they call home.

I hope they aren't driven out of their homes by hatred as displayed on threads like these for their sartorial choices which are not breaking any laws and a right afforded to everyone it seems but a woman who chooses to wear hijab.

I'm going to bed.

I don't think it's surprising that Atheists (myself included) get a little annoyed that all schools are supposed to include an act of worship. I can't imagine the Catholics would be that impressed if their children were asked to pray towards Mecca five times a day. By the government! It is irritating that a generally ignored principle of democracy is the separation of Church and State. I mean that to include the principle that I should not interfere with your religion but you should not force your religion on me or my children. I do not think that I should pay tax to religious schools because taxation is the business of the government and faith is the business of the religions.

x-posted, fuzzywuzzy, BTW my lack of wanting faith schools and faith in schools does not reflect on my belief you have the right to choose the hijab.

" It is irritating that a generally ignored principle of democracy is the separation of Church and State."

That would be the principle of secular democracies, and UK just isn't one.

fuzzywuzzy. It's not hatred of Muslims, it's a loathing for something that most people see as divisive for both community and gender. The covering of women is not reasonably comprehensible if you have no faith in a, patriarchal, God. The reasoning behind the covering is misogynist and controlling. I'm sure you can see it with objective eyes.

If I wore a badge, of some description, that spewed my beliefs or views about homosexuality (as dictated by God) I am sure not everyone would be so positive to me. Or do Muslims, like every other faith, pick and choose the bots of 'God' they follow?

Why does eveyone go on about these daily acts of worship their Atheist children are being forced into. Do you not know you have the right to withdraw your child from any such acts of worship if you so wish or do you just choose not to so that you can whine on an internet chat board about how your child is being brainwashed by the nasty system?

Sorry...not loathing of a garment, dislike of a garment and what it represents.

cantspel. I think you'll find withdrawing your child does make a big fuss.

Not in my experience. At my sons catholic school anyone who withdraws from term mass ect just goes to the LRC and does their homework/mucks around on the computers.

Also further up in the thread someone said that if you could play the religious card it was unfair as you would have 1st option on a maybe good faith school but also 1st option on a maybe good catchment community school.
But this is not true either as if you put a faith school down as your first option on school sectection and it is not your nearest catchment school then you lose you right to an altermatic place at the catchment school. If you dont get into the faith school the local auth still has to allocate you a school but it could be any and a sink one miles away. i dont know if other LA's have the same policy but we do in west sussex.

Cantspel - but if your neighbour isn't a churchgoer, they only really have a choice of ONE school if it's the faith school actively discriminates against non-churchgoers. You (assuming you are a church-goer) would have a choice of TWO, the faith school and the catchment school. That is the thing that isn't fair.

Riven, if you had the money you said you would send your daughter to a private Muslim school.

"Riven, if you had the money you said you would send your daughter to a private Muslim school."

I would assume that would be if the current school system stayed the same, not if there were equal faith free schools.

MistyValley my non going church neighbour also has the right to put down the same faith school as i do but i am higher up on the list for admitance. In the same way as i would be lower down the list if i wanted to apply for a local school that wasn't my catchment school as every school in the land has some sort of admissions critia.
I live in a non grammar school area therefore i dont have a choice to select a grammar school but the people who live in the next county along do. Should i then be wanting to take that choice way from them just because i have little to no hope of getting my child in a grammar school in our neibouring county?

"MistyValley my non going church neighbour also has the right to put down the same faith school as i do but i am higher up on the list for admitance. "

Well that would be the unfair bit then, wouldn't it?

Riven i too have a child in a sen school who is bused about 7 miles across county but i cannot see how i counld expect to have a sen school on my doorstep. It makes more sense to put the school somewhere central with good transport links than have several small sen schools.

" It's not hatred of Muslims, it's a loathing for something that most people see as divisive for both community and gender. The covering of women is not reasonably comprehensible if you have no faith in a, patriarchal, God. The reasoning behind the covering is misogynist and controlling. I'm sure you can see it with objective eyes."

I agree with Posie Parker.

It's a feminist issue. And if men aren't doing it - covering up for the sake of modesty, then I don't see why women should.

The way I see it women are in charge of their own vaginas

fanjo. You can assume all you like, but it seems a little odd that someone opposed (would like to ban faith schools) would like to send their child to one, dontcha think?

None? That is shit. (as in I agree, not that you're talking rubbish!!)

But, as I've said before, our city is very segregated. People don't, generally, mix. So I'm not surprised that the school your dd goes is to is 'white'.

fuzzywuzzy I respect your opinion but I cannot agree with you that a woman covering her head is a culturally neutral act.

I am in no position to argue against what you believe is the word of God but in my opinion religion in scriptures is influenced enormously by the cultural lens through which the 'authors' 'transcribed' what they believed to be the word of god.

I understand that you believe that it is your own choice. But I genuinely and with real respect, do not believe that you are making a free choice. I think that Islamic culture has changed a good deal in recent history and that there is a trend back towards this kind of symbolic marking out of Muslim women where once there was less pressure, witness your greater commitment to the veil than your mum. It's partly a fashion.

I believe that uncovering your head would show respect to your own country and your fellow country women who are equal to every man here in the law.
Surely you are not saying that a Muslim woman who does not cover her head is less of a Muslim than you? Surely God is not such a simpleton. This is cultural behaviour in my opinion and your desire to cover your head is culturally determined. Your education does not stop you behaving in a culturally determined way.

I do respect your desire to defer to your faith in this but it does effect the body politic in my opinion, it is a comment on your status as inferior (imo) and to see more and more of my fellow country women and their daughters covering their heads genuinely makes me ashamed of them and my gender. We didn't get the vote to bow our heads with humility to a gender who does not deserve that level of respect!

You also need to persuade me why head covering is so popular in Muslim states which have the most heinous human rights abuse records towards women. How can you not connect this gender symbol of inferiority with a culture that ill treats women?

You have to look at history and ask yourself why do abusive systems like the Nazis mark out inferior groups as the eductate the populace to see that group as lesser. I do see a correlation.

I have no problem with Islam, I just don't see why I should know what religion a person has by looking at them.