To think a school can't legally suddenly ban the headscarf for muslin girls!

[Headscarfs123]

So our local catholic school has banned the headscarf this week...disastrous for some of the girls but also against church advice that headscarfs are fine, against DFES advice about consultation and sensitivity to religious groups, against best practice as this type of change should involve the governing body? discriminatory on religious and sexist grounds...Sikh boys can keep their turbans.

Aibu to think that the school is legally in the wrong?

Thanks but I wanted to know how extreme you were about it

Some people when they say that, mean far worse! (Done the rounds on many reilgious threads- seen it all now!)

Riven it's possible that it wasn't explained to you that you had non-bible based options, they may have passed you a bible to swear ob as a default option, but unless you are much older than I expected if you'd said "I am not a Christian and do not wish to swear on the bible" they would have given you other options. The Quakers won us the right to affirm rather than swear centuries ago.

Cocoflower - since you ask, probably secular humanist atheist woolly liberal would define me best. I'm not terribly keen on racism, sexism, hypocrisy, and abuse of privilege and power, but other than that I'm fairly tolerant I think!

No but being tolerant to reilgion is also quite a nice habit in people!

I don't think I am intolerant of religious belief per se. As long as people aren't using religious belief as justification for abuse of power and oppression

I have to say I love Muslim culture any most of the Muslims I meet all the time are fabulous, I love living in a diverse culture, I've lived in Pakistan and I loved it, loved the people, loved the culture.
But this isn't Pakistan is it?
We have a different history.
Women have a different history, a profoundly different history. I would say some parts of Pakistan women have the same status they had here in the 1700s, in law and practice.
I love true Islam, but I really really don't want to live in a Muslim state. Believe me, my neighbourhood is nearly that now. It wasn't when I moved here. And it is weird when you realise that 50% of your neighbours don't speak English to each other and barely at all to you. I want to live in a diverse country, not a country dominated by one religion/culture. I do find the head covering thing is symbolic to me of the kind of the almost aggressiveness of some Muslim styles of culture. It just feels like a big F you, this is our country now! I know that's not rational but it can feel like that when you're surrounded by women with their heads covered.

I have no problem with individuals, I just don't want to be overwhelmed by one culture.

BTW, I think this country is really not hampered by religion any more.
Christianity is largely token and symbolic. It's much worse in the USA which is not a truly secular nation imo!

My area has become very very Muslim in the last ten years. Our local school probably now has over 50% of mothers with their heads covered. The nursery it's a much higher percentage. It does feel the dominant local culture and many of us don't like. The individuals are almost without exception, lovely. But why do so many have to dress like we're in Karachi? We're in the UK! I don't see why visible integration is incompatible with Islam. I feel for any girl from a Muslim family who doesn't want to wear a veil, how much pressure would she feel under?
The other thing is girls are wearing veils younger and younger.
What's the problem with them showing their hair, they're kids!
Honestly it wreaks of misogyny to me.
I want to live in a secular democracy that's all with wonderful diversity and privately practiced religion.

i dont know where you live but where i am the one stop store is open christmas morning for any forgotten pints of milk and last year a large, well known plumbers fitted a new pu board to my boiler on christmas eve.

Now if you go to Cairo in the middle of ramadan everything will shut early. Stores, all the major historical sites, local offices, the lot.

I should have added that Egypt is a secular state even thought it has a something like 90% muslim population. So even in a secular state you still get a change in usual working paterns over religious holidays.

If Jewish women cover their hair with wigs then that is the most likely reason people don't talk about it, plus we don't see too many Jewish converts....as most of us believe, rightly or wrongly, that you have to be Jewish by birth. Plus the second world war allows the Jewish community get away with a lot more, and as it pre dates Christianity people forgive it and accept the culture far more. We have had laws protecting Jews since 1658 (if my memory serves me correctly).

Bloody good shops being shut (well big shops) it's ruined small business to allow the supermarkets to open.

Jewish women dont all wear wigs, they also cover with scarfs tightly wound and 'snoods' and other things (around here anyway, fairly large Jewish community)

BTW, I think this country is really not hampered by religion any more.

It wouldn't be hampered at all if we had no bishops in the House of Lords, and education in state schools didn't have to be "of a broadly Christian character" and they didn't have to have a religious assembly. I'd like to see it be made illegal to teach religious doctrine as fact in any school, so no faith schools basically.

Religions should not have any political influence - recently a couple of important pieces of legislation on sex education and adoption were watered down because politicians listened to religious lobbyists. Obviously this happens a great deal more in the US. Also they should not have any exemptions from laws that every other organisation in the country have to abide by.

At the same time I think schools should make provision in their uniform for pupils to wear religious dress - within reason. And people should be allowed to practice religion freely where it doesn't contravene the law.

On the 'secular society' thing I just wanted to say that I don't want to outlaw religion. I don't even want them to stop teaching about religion in schools. As long as it is taught in the way history and geography is - as a subject to learn about. Not a faith to practice.

And if enough people want religion then let there be a church/synagogue/mosque on every corner.

It's only the imposition of other people's beliefs on those who don't want to be involved that is the problem. So no religious worship/rules/symbols in the places we are all required to go (schools, courts, town hall, tesco)

"I'd like to see it be made illegal to teach religious doctrine as fact in any school, so no faith schools basically."

Hardly your bussiness what other families choose to do though is it?

Hardly your business what other families choose to do though is it?

Sorry, but that doesn't work out. In order for one family to send their child to a faith school all the other families in the area must be forced to send their children there to. Unless you can find a way to finance a school each.

So you think you have a right too stop the faith character of the school to suit YOU do you? Other people want to use it even if you don't

I hate this attitude; "everything is all about me and everything needs to change for me as Im far more important"

grrrrr

Cocoflower, you have it backwards. You want 100s of kids to be forced to worship your god so that you can have your way.

When all you need do is take them to church if you want them to be converted.

Your attitude is the problem we are all trying to deal with.

onagar - 100% with you on that. religion is a private matter

state should be totally separated from religion of any kind: christianity, islam or pagan faiths

sadly, it is next to impossible in the uk in the near future.