To think a school can't legally suddenly ban the headscarf for muslin girls!

[Headscarfs123]

So our local catholic school has banned the headscarf this week...disastrous for some of the girls but also against church advice that headscarfs are fine, against DFES advice about consultation and sensitivity to religious groups, against best practice as this type of change should involve the governing body? discriminatory on religious and sexist grounds...Sikh boys can keep their turbans.

Aibu to think that the school is legally in the wrong?

Has someone been stirring just a little bit?

I don't really believe this, either- don't think the OP hung around

mind you, it's still interesting, specially in the light of what's going on in France and NL. This thread has reinforced my belief that- since I never hear anything about any ban on, say, jewish boys wearing the yarmulke (sp), sikh boys in turbans etc etc- headscarf bans are (at best) pointless and (at worst) downright racist

love the way headscarf bans are always framed in a pro-women's rights sort of way as well. Utter tosh. There are loads of teenage girls covering their hair by choice ime

SHJ....Should religious belief trump personal belief? IE should Goths be allowed to express themselves at school too?

Just wondering, not sure what the answer is TBH. Would hate to stifle people's religious freedom but why is religious freedom one that trumps everything else?

I wonder if Cheltenham ladies college, for example, allows hijab. Certainly doesn't list it.....of show photos of any pupils wearing one. SAme with Clifton college, where girls are not allowed trousers, no hijab in photos or on uniform list. #justsaying

Boys' headcoverings / adornments aren't about a perceived enforced 'modesty' though, are they? I guess that may be one reason why headscarves and veils are viewed differently sometimes.

And for every veil wearing woman who genuinely chooses to cover up, there are many more who have no real choice as to whether they do or not.

But I do think that to actually ban headscarves and veils is counterproductive, and voilates human rights in the same way that insisting that they be worn does.

cote wouldnt really say you are an expert in Islam, on this topic or otherwise, so i do hope you were exercising sarcasm.

It does say in the quran that women must be covered, in the surah already written on previous pages. the adournments thing relates to women not stamping their feet too heavily on the ground in case their jewellery makes a noise, this could be unsafe and they might be mugged or killed.

Covering the heads of girls and women is a massive political statement.
It's not something like eating food from granny's village (which we all can do from any culture) or going to our own place of worship.
It is marking out women and girls as separate for the gender alone.
It's is a regressive and unequal act.
The French are right imho.
We are all equal.
This is NOT a true part of British culture, that's total nonsense. It's part of a regressive fashion in Muslim communities.

I know we eat curry now of course but it's nothing like as good as real curry cooked by people in their homes (and some excellent restaurants).
Head covering is a backward step and it effects all of us, Muslims or otherwise.
It makes me feel ashamed when I see it, ashamed for the women who defend it and ashamed that history can go backwards.
It's not some piffling thing, nor is it to be defended on multicultural grounds in my opinion.
I know some women defend it as 'liberation' from western pressures of appearance - come on! I don't buy that.
Equality is messy and painful but look at how extreme some Muslim states are becoming and how regressive.
Do you think it's healthy this gender separation?

How do you explain the enormous demand for Western porn in Islamic countries? These are for blonde plastic western women doing whatever to whoever. If this kind of behaviour was so good for gender relations how do you explain the plight of human rights for women in Muslim countries and the profound inequality enshrined culturally?
I feel ashamed that any woman kids herself about this.
Fine to defend it if you love your culture and see benefits but what's happening in my part of London is hardly any girl at our local college has her head uncovered. I don't want to live in a state dominated by ancient religion. I want to live in a democratic state ruled by secular laws.

On the bit about it being impossible to change Islam. I'd have to disagree with that. In theory you can't change any religion because to do so means that you (and god) had it wrong the first time.

In practice all religions change. If they can't 'translate' their holy book then they 'explain' what it really meant. Frequently disregarding all the actual words to make it say something new.

As for Islam not having a hierarchy nor does Christianity really. All are equal under god. But then you find that some people like popes/bishops/priests are more equal than others.
If you are Muslim and not sure if you have a hierarchy just go to your Imam and ask.

isnt there a change though, we said we wanted it all, got it or made progress that way and now so many women are choosing to reject it.

why is this? too much choice? ive been to churches and the women still cover their hair and shoulders.

i dont think wearing a headscarf is a bad thing as long as you have chosen too, but what many people here forget is that there are lots of women in islamic counstries that dont have a choice. so what we really should be talking about is freedom of choice, the lack of has little to do with islam and more to do with people.

onagar. There is an Islamic reform movement and many international scholars throughout the Islamic world gather frequently to see what they can change. I am pretty sure even the notion of God's words to men and women at the time would be a possibility to reinterpret for this modern age.

TBH the Islam cannot change mantra is the most damaging and least acceptable thing about Islam, it makes it the frightening religion that it is today. TBH the word of God asks people to kill non Muslims, mayb e not Christians, I can't remember any Muslim/non Muslim killings in Bristol lately.

The op went away to make calls.

Still here, still real. still no wish to out the school or see it on the front page of the daily mail. No exaggeration, actually the details i now know make it more astonishing.

Am speaking to people who are following up for me over the next few days and will politely post an update then.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped me understand the legal issues, groups to approach etc.

Headscarfs - fwiw you sound real enough to me.

:) thanks misty, can feel my colour coming back... Realise how entirely uncontroversial I have always been up to now.

You dont have to swear on the bible. you can take the oath on any religious book you choose (the court has a stock of them all) or indeed you can affirm.

sorry the tail end of my post has dissapeared

but should say many religious people will choose to affirm in court. The affirmation is not just for atheists or agnostics.

I'd prefer that our country was truly secular. And that our state schools were truly state schools, and were not allowed to discriminate on the basis of children being of the 'right' or 'wrong' religion, or not religious 'enough'.

No I love that this country, this world has so many faiths and spiritual beleifs. Its part of the tapestry of life

Can you imagine how annoyed people would get though if we had a state dress code, arf. When the Tories are in, all the ladies have to wear blue ankle length dresses in public. When Labour are in, it's red shorts for all. Etc.

Cocoflower - I'm not talking about banning religion.

how old are you as the oaths act was pasted in 1867.

I have worked many christmas and easter holidays but you are welcome to cover for me if your life grinds to a halt at these times as mine doesn't.

When you say "truly secular" what do you mean- no Relgious TV, no Christian bookshops, no religious dress in public, no churches or Mosques etc?

Or are simply meaning a secular education system?

Cocoflower - it's about the separation of church and state, not abolishing religion or opressing anyone.

More info here Secularism