To think that SOME (not all) working Mums take the P@ss

[Islandlady]

Long story short, my mate works in an office with 2 WMs neither seem to work a full week or full hours but my mate fully understands the pressures and responsibilities of a WM so hasnt really complained even though she has been in the office until 8 sometimes to get the work done when she has been on her own due to both WMs being off especially during the school hols when there has been child care problems.

But now she is hopping mad, she booked a holiday to come and stay with me and DH on the island way back in February - she would have liked to have come during Cowes week but thats during August so decided to come for Bestival which starts end of this week, she has booked and paid for her Ferry tickets plus booked and paid for her animals to go into kennels, her holiday has been on the office planner and the office diary since Feb I have booked the same time off work and my DH has cleared his freelance work so we can all spend time together we will do Bestival and then she will stay at ours and we will go out for days (if it stops raining)

Last week one of the Mums blithly tells her that she is taking her DS to Disney World next week as its cheaper and if she doesnt go he wont have had a proper holiday and expected my Mate to fall in with her plans IE cancel her own Holiday.

The Boss is being a wimp, he says they cant both go together, first he says if they argue neither can take the time off, then after my Mate complained to the MD has agreed that she can go and the Mum cant.

Now my mate is a pariah in the office the Mum spent all Monday weeping in the toilet and took Tuesday off with 'stress' Mate has had to endure comments like 'I hope you are proud of yourself' from the other Mum in her office and another Mum called her (my Mate) selfish and nasty.

aibu to think thats its Working Mums like that who give other WMs a bad name and even stop some employers taking them on, or would the WMs here
think my Mate is the unreasonable one

sorry for long post

[flippinada]

Loudlass - I am a single working parent so I sympathise with your dilemma. It's really tough.

I have to use all my annual leave to cover holidays etc - because there's no-one else to do it! And if my DC is sick I have to take time off because I have no friends/family/neighbours nearby that can step into the breach.

kelly2000 - can you explain what a lone working parent is to do if there is literally no-one else to look after their children? It happens. Should they not be 'allowed' to work because it's not fair on other colleagues if they have to take time off?

[HPonEverything]

I've worked with lots of people who take the absolute p1$$ wrt not doing their hours, going early, being 'off sick' etc. Very few of them are working mums (most of them are male, actually, but then my workplace is 90% male). I wouldn't say they "give other males a bad name" though. I get what you are saying, and it's sadly easier to pigeon-hole a working mum than the entire male population. I'll be a WM myself soon but there is no way I would behave like that, if anything I expect people to behave like that to me because I'm a bit of a doormat!

Your friend works with an obnoxious moo, and has a boss who needs to grow a pair and go on some serious management training. But this situation has nothing to do with her being a working mum other than her using the child as an excuse - it could just as easily be the car/dog/mother-in-law, if she felt that she was more entitled to the time off than anyone else. She sounds vile and I feel for your friend that she doesn't have a better boss. I'd be raising it with management again if I was her, she shouldn't have to put up with this as she's done nothing wrong.

[mistlethrush]

Maryz - but some men, some grandmothers, some teenagers - some DINKYs... the list is endless - they all take the piss too. Why pick on working mums. Lets be honest, this person would have pulled another rabbit out of the bag to invent a reason why she should go on the holiday at that time rather than the OP's friend even if she didn't have children. This is not to do with working mums.

Loudlass is a good example of a working mum not taking the piss. She's having to be organised and sort her leave out to cover the periods when she cannot get alternative childcare or it is too expensive. That is not unreasonable behaviour.

Don't make all of us working mums feel worse that (some of us) already do by implying that we (some of us) are taking the piss, just because we're mums!

[CardyMow]

Kelly2000 - Well, OK, I shall stay on benefits then, and sponge off the state until I am no longer in this situation then, shall I??

It's not that I am 'going to' take parental leave - it's that I would have no choice BUT to. Can you honestly not see that a lone parent CANNOT just leave their dc at home alone, or take them into work with them??

You posted this - 'If you find someone who does not celebrate these days, and has no issue working and they agree to swap then fair enough, but it cannot just be expected because you have children'. My point is that I CANNOT find ANYONE willing to look after my dc on those days! It's not that it is 'expected' per se, as much as the fact that my dc CANNOT BE LEFT AT HOME ON THEIR OWN OR TAKEN INTO WORK!! All parents are entitled to some form of flexibility in their workplace - this is the flexibility that I need.

I have no family support, My DD's father lives over 500 miles away from me (and has only seen her once in 13 years), My DS1's dad (Ex-H)is always away at Christmas, and my DS2 & DS3's dad (Ex-P) isn't ALLOWED to book those days off work if they are his rota'd shifts. My Ex-MIL has MH problems, and cannot look after dc alone, my mother refuses to look after dc - tbh she didn't even look after ME, I was brought up by my dad until he died, then I was in FC. So yeah, shoot me if I can't get childcare.

I assume, Kelly2000, that you'd be just as pissed off with my attitude if I said that I was going to stay on IS / JSA for the next 10 years+ because it would be unfair on my colleagues if I had to have certain days off every year??

[CardyMow]

Haha X-posts, flippinada!

[TheRealTillyMinto]

i think the OP is falling for the same trap that ther rest of her firm have fallen for:

this is nothing too do with working mums. it has everything to do with one manipulative person trying to make it about being a working mum.

OP - I think UABU, but you have just fallen for the your friends coworker's trap. everyone needs to step way from the game playing and check the Company Handbook or other documentation that defines the holiday booking process. Company Handbook is generally part of your employment contact so a part of your terms of employment.

[slavetofilofax]

Loudlass, I hear you, i really do. You have very good reson to need to book time off for certain dates early. Nobody is saying that you don't.

But the point is, that if you are doing that, it does affect others. What if another colleague has simelar childcare issues? If you are working as part of a team, you have to give and take. Having children (SN or not) does not give you priority for time off. Booking it first gives you priority, and that's fair enough, but if someone else gets in before you and you say that you have to take the time off anyway, you are letting down your colleages or getting an unfair advantage. That is unfair, whatever way you want to look at it, and whatever valid reasons you have. That has to be acknowledged, or it's no wonder that childless colleagues get pissed off with those of us with children.

Someone shouldn't have to get up at the crack of dawn on their pree booked day off of the 2nd Jan to get their holiday in just because a colleague has children.

I don't mean this to sound like such a personal attack on you btw Loudlass, I'm just aiming it at someone in the position you described

[flippinada]

You've highlighted what has annoyed me about this thread mistlethrush (I know others have made the same point too).

Why are working mums getting it in the neck when other people who are not working mums behave in exactly the same way?

[CardyMow]

And who the HELL would WANT to agree to swap those days for someone else, if they were already booked off, why would they agree to swap with ME?

However, I have in the past, worked on what was meant to be my day off (during term time) to cover other people's holidays, or speciall occasions etc.

[CardyMow]

But, the thing is, I DO sometimes get up at the arse-fart of dawn, on my day off, if the 2nd Jan is a day off for me, to go in and hand in my form!!

[kelly2000]

Loudlass gave her reason why she should be entitiled to take Christmas, new year, and easter off each and every year even if others have to work it each and every year as the fact that she has a children. That was it plain and simple, she has children, childcare would be difficult so the childless have to sacrifice for her. That is unreasonable, think of Maryz friend.
demanding you be given every christmas, new year, easter off each and every single year because you have children is the sort of thing that gives working parents a bad name.
babyheave,
The bully gave her reasons for her bad behaviour as the fact she was a working mother, why is the onus on the victim, and her friend to excuse this. One cannot say "I am doing this for x reason, but no-one is allowed to say i am doing it for x reasons." If I went ahead and did something horrible and justified it by saying "i have a degree" I think it would be fair if the victims asked "do some people with degrees take the piss, what do you think".

[TheRealTillyMinto]

I thought as a parent you can take unpaid time off work so there is no need to have special holday prevailages?

[Sofabitch]

Only Read the op but it's the bosses fault
For not Gavin clear annual leave policies. In our office. Whoever books it first gets it regardless of children etc.

[HannahHack]

Hmm, interesting responses. What about working fathers?

[slavetofilofax]

Yes, but you do it because you have children. Why should someone that doesn't have children have to do that just because you do?

But, they do, it's part of working as a team with others, but you have to at least acknowledge that your needs inconvenience others.

[etyksm]

The way our boss does it is that we have to arrange cover between us, so I will send request in saying x/y have agreed to provide cover. Our team has several sub teams specific to a single client so we always have to ensure that the other(s) in the sub team are in and also that someone else in another sub team is available if there is a major emergency - this seems to work well as we discuss and agree/bargain between us. E.g. I had the Easter royal wedding and my collegue had last Christmas.

YANBU - why should your friend cancel her long held plans due to collegues bad planning? (WM or not should not come into it)

Disclaimer I did cancel 1 day of my holiday to allow a collegue to be able to book a 2 week break, she didn't expect me to, I offered, as they have to book around her SD's mum's plans which are not available at the start of the holiday booking time.

[flippinada]

"Having children (SN or not) does not give you priority for time off."

Slavetofilofax - sometimes, you do HAVE to have time off when you have DC. There are no two ways about it. I go to every effort to ensure I'm not letting colleagues down WRT booking leave, working my scheduled hours, but sometimes to have no choice.

I'll ask again, should lone parents not bother working because they have DC and will need time off at some point?

Not everyone has friends/neighbours/family nearby who are willing to help out in a childcare emergency either.

[bonkers20]

"I dont get why people are so adamant this is nothing to do with her being a working mum. She's playing the "I have a child card" to get what "

Because if it wasn't for the child, she'd find some other reason.
She's an arse, child or not!

[fanjobanjowanjo]

I think kelly2000 makes a good point, no one is denying you NEED that time to care for your DCs, they are just pointing out that it means someone else always has to work xmas day etc etc, and it could be perceived by your less understanding colleagues that this is unfair as you never have to work xmas day or whatever, and they do.

I wouldn't like your job - nobody I know has to work xmas day (usually have to keep some of hols to cover) - are you a nurse or something?

[flippinada]

Sorry, don't know where the random 'to' came from there

[JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar]

Loudlass if you were my colleague I wouldn't resent you having priority, because your need would be greater than mine.

I still don't like the first dibs thing though - what if you can't get in first thing to book that leave because you've not got childcare? What if your footloose and fancy free colleagues get there first, because you're stuck in traffic? Then what?

That's what I mean about working and planning these things as a team, so it's a case of reaching a consensus rather than post-pipping.

[kelly2000]

Loudlass, My point is that when working parents expect other people to have to make sacrifices for them because they have children it gives working mothers a bad name. It doe snot matter if you wake up early on your day off to hand in your leave slip, it is unreasonable to expect people without children to give up christmas, new year and easter each and every year, it is not flixible at all. Flexibility is sharing, not expecting everyone else to cover for you and your children's fathers year in year out.
I am not getting at you as others have said I am pointing out that in situations like this parents should not be given privilages over everyone else, and that when they do it gives all working parents a bad name. Very few companies will allow one person to hog all the holidays year in yera out. I certainly would nto work christmas, new year and easter every year because another colleague had children and could not get childcare or the other parent to look after their child. One year on one yera off, is fine, but not every year.

[mistlethrush]

If the thread had been 'AIBU: To think that This working Mum is taking the P@ss'

I would have agreed wholeheartedly. That is not what it said, and the implications that entailed riled me.

Perhaps I should start a thread: 'AIBU: To think that people posting in AIBU should word their thread titles more carefully'