to wonder why women who dont like their own lives, seriously consider blaming feminism?

[TheRealTillyMinto]

the other targets for the finger of blame are:

1. global downturn
2. remaining inequality
3. over population
4. capitalism
5. themselves
6. their parents
7. their DP

plus any number of things you care to add to the list....

Also it is illogical to ignore what feminism has given you (the vote, access to DCs after divorce, the right to say no to sex with your DH).

feminism is easy target if put on rose tinted spectacles and look back to an idealised past that never existed. you don?t have the deal with politics, economics or take responsibility for your own life. so AIBU to say blaming feminism for what is wrong in your own life, is just lazy thinking?

I will have to be a WOHM when my DS is born as I am the main breadwinner in our house. I do love my career but I would love to be able to stay at home for a bit. It just isn't an option. (

I work in a cut throat, male environment and I earn good money but the downside is I won't really get mat leave. I will be working from home the whole way through, working 2 days a week when DS is 6 weeks old and back full time when he is less than 16 weeks. I don't want that really, but if I don't do it I lose my career and it won't be easy (maybe even possible) to pick it up again. The whole way though my pg I have not had a day off sick or complained once as if I do it will "oh she's different now she's pregnant" and I will be side-lined for promotions etc and my career will grind to a halt. I am the second female employee ever to have a baby in the companies 15 year history and the first at my level (although I am the only woman at my level). Add on to that the 30% pay gap in my garlic displayed with the data from the Guardian and the fact that I am expected to wear high heels (although not now I am pg) and that going over a sz 12 is a sacking offence, and get my arse slapped on occasion, I do have to wonder how far feminism has really come.

What gets me is no-one asks the expectant dads how they are going to balance work and a career, but everyone asks me. Plus I hate the "Oh.....leaving him in Day oprhanage" sneers from SAHMs. You never get it from men - only other women...so much for the "sisterhood" - I don't believe it exists for a minute.

Also - I am disgusted by the cost of childcare, which is going to be around £250 per week. That's £1k per month and the government pretends it wants women to work? It it did maybe it would sort out affordable childcare.

Sorry. Rant over.

Not a rant at all, catgirl, but you put your finger on the problem in the penultimate paragraph:

That's £1k per month and the government pretends it wants women to work? It it did maybe it would sort out affordable childcare.

It's this that I think we should all be up in arms about. Pompous as it might sound (I can't think of any way to word it better, sorry), I think it's this issue re. childcare that's probably the last bastion of a misogynistic patriarchy (or something, YKWIM?)

I really can't understand why women would criticize each others choices rather than rounding on this as the real problem.

Right... that's my rant, and I will continue to rant about it.

But now I must be orf...

To be fair I do think the whole system is unfair on dads too. DH gets a mere two weeks leave- one at 10% pay he has been told! He is quite upset about it he would love to be at home for longer. I do feel sorry for him balancing the chaos a newborn brings with having to keep performing at work, commuting 3 hours a day, pressure to meet targets etc

I know so many do it but its not really very realistic system.

I agree with that "Also - I am disgusted by the cost of childcare, which is going to be around £250 per week. That's £1k per month and the government pretends it wants women to work? It it did maybe it would sort out affordable childcare."

The problems is if the cost was cut who would be effected- the childminders and other workers may be expected to work for even less? This is one of the UK's biggest problems

Agree Coco - 2 weeks does seem pretty mean for Dad's too - and a lot of Dad's I know only take one anyway either for financial / career reasons. I don't know what the answer is - I certainly wouldn't want the person looking after my child being paid less (and therefore being perhaps less engaged or committed) and would welcome them being paid more to attract really great people into the career, but obvioulsy the two are rather incompatiable!

yes, for many people childcare costs seem exorbitant but let's keep some perspective. People in low paid work can get the vast majority of costs paid for them. Also there is now 15 hours a week free nursery care from after the child turns 3. Combine that with the fact that women can now take a whole year off for maternity leave, and its actually not a huge amount of time that parents are paying full childcare rates. It's easy to complain but that's a huge improvement on previous years. Older colleagues of mine were routinely back at work when the baby was 12 weeks and paying full child care for nearly 5 years until they started school. We can always wish things were easier but lets not forget how far we've come

Agree, Cocoflower, but women shoulder the fall out of undervaluing of childcare - as mothers and as professional carers, presumably because childcare has traditionally been seen as 'women's work' (as has teaching, albeit to a lesser extent).
The same approach hasn't been made towards e.g. medical care (apart from underpaying nurses - oh, women, again!)

And, yes, it is one of the UK's biggest problems.
(Really must go now!)

Thatcher ruined my life.

"People in low paid work can get the vast majority of costs paid for them"

However, I will not be popular for saying this but hence lies a problem.

For many people just maybe £100 over the cut off point for Tax credit help they will have huge problems. They have to meet all their own costs while lower earners get so much help (childcare, maybe HB etc) meaning they are sometimes far better off....

Yes coco I agree that those in between the high and low earners are always the ones who get screwed

catgirl, what the hell kind of job do you have? you should sue them for sexual discrimination/harassment, then you can stay home and live off the proceeds

It is not incompatible to have cheap childcare and well-paid childcare workers -- if childcare is a priority for the government, they can subsidize it.

I live in France now, we pay 35 cents an hour for excellent childcare. That's because we are a bit low income but the highest it would go is 2.50 euros an hour.

Of course you can say 'where's the money going to come from' but think how many people could come off benefits if they could afford childcare and work more, not to mention all the jobs that would be created by higher demand.

donthateme - I won't get any help / tax credits and I can only take a few weeks off so will be paying out a lot of money. Yes I am lucky to earn a good wage but I do pay a huge amount of tax and then will pay £12k a year for childcare so I think I am subsdising the system (which I am happy to do) but I can see that for people "in the middle" it would make little financial sense to go back to work.

What are the maternity/paternity rights in France?

Is it true you get at home help for newborns from the goverment?

Coco, I don't know about newborns, we moved here when DS was 1 yo. I know the postnatal help on the physical side is supposed to be much better (you get free physiotherapy apparently, and follow ups with a gynecologist)

I think paid maternity leave is only 3 months (not sure about paternity). There is also a version of child benefit and other family discounts (eg for transport).

Thanks dreaming.

Just wondering if there is a better model of childcare elsewhere the UK should adopt

I think we have it a lot better than the US from what I understand.

Maternity leave is obviously much worse in the US (barely any at all) but I think child care is equally expensive in the two countries.

I'm sure there is a better model of childcare out there, I believe in the Scandinavian countries there's 12 months parental leave and practically free childcare. It wouldn't be rocket science to put one together. I don't think it will ever happen though, if it didn't happen in the boomtime Labour years it's certainly not going to happen now.

I agree we should shelve the SAHM vs WOHM debate and work together for more and better childcare options!