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Original poster

to think that evicting hundreds of travellers from their site is unfair and immoral

1004 replies

rocketty · 31/08/2011 20:38

It's an illegal site. They didn't have planning permission. It's greenbelt...

but it used to be a car scrapyard (not rolling fields and thatched cottages then), they own the land and it's right next to a legal settlement.

They've obviously broken the law by settling here, but on balance, wouldn't it be more ethical to let them be? The children are settled at school and getting an education. Lots of people are prejudiced against gypsies and travellers but they've got to live somewhere.

I've seen the news articles about it. It makes me feel sad.

OP posts:
BohicaWankSock · 31/08/2011 22:58

As far as I know a travellers purchased the land from a scrap yard merchant and then sold percentages on to other english family traveller members.

In 2002, Irish travellers arrived on the site which made the numbers rise and the need for mobile/static homes rise.

One part of the land is legal to build on and the other half is green belt and after being refused permission to build o the green belt area the travellers chose to build anyway.

The legal side of the site is now quite derelict and as I said in my previous post, £18m would be better spent moving them over and back onto the legal side of the land than evicting them and then offering them a council house or themm moving on.

From what I understand, travellers say that the site was used as a scrap yard which held oil, scrap metal etc so should be classed as brown belt not green belt as the land was in a used state.

BoneyBackJefferson · 31/08/2011 23:12

"From what I understand, travellers say that"

yes, well, my best mate's sister's step father's niece's etc. etc.

butterscotch · 31/08/2011 23:16

Lets be clear the council have offered the vunerable members of their community social housing they have said they will never accept as its in the more run down areas...... snobbery?

The site was previously scrap yard, the council sold the land and evicted the scrap yard, they sold to travellers (quick buck anyone?) they gave permission (retrospectively - BTW the comments about travellers planning permission issues is often because it is retrospective! if they followed proper process......) for a limited amount of dwellings, the site has grown and the local police get firebombed trying to go in so £8mil of Council Tax money (if your being blunt) is being spent on evicting them!

They have a choice, they always have done, obey the law, then you get respect, if you disrespect/break the law then you are aware and deserve what comes your way...

They choose to have children that might get evicted..... lets be honest they aren't the smartest people, otherwise they would be milking the education to get everything they can! My DD's preschool had a traveller family the attendance was odd......

Its no different to an addict you can get help/get out of the situation if you really want, its wanting to enough... there is support there.....sadly in the name of "human rights" and being scared of being "racist" to this sector of society councils are held hostage to their demands and have to tread very carefully, its a sad state of affairs

BohicaWankSock · 31/08/2011 23:20

Fair point, but the site holder owned a scrap metal site for many years and then the owner sold the site to travellers after the council revoked an agreement that the land owner picks up abandoned cars.

At this point the land was free to build on if permission was granted and after the travellers bought the land half was deemed green belt.

What's green about car engines, oil and scrap?

CurrySpice · 31/08/2011 23:20

I think people are getting hung up on the scrap yard thing. It was small, (tiny in fact) yard at the end of a long rural lane. Not a giant heap in the middle of a large industrial estate.

The impact of hundreds of people desecnding to live on the site and the knock-on-effect on local people and services is HUGE compared to the scrap yard

This is a small rural community. Not a large city or town

butterscotch · 31/08/2011 23:24

No the council sold the land bohicawanksock! They forced the scrap yard to close they served him an eviction and sold to the travellers......

butterscotch · 31/08/2011 23:25

MollieO not sure where W St L is?

I'm referring to Dale Farm and other ones in the surrounding area....

PerryCombover · 31/08/2011 23:27

We should not be doing this to travellers

butterscotch · 31/08/2011 23:31

But perrycombover they aren't travellers really they haven't moved for 10 yrs? I've lived abroad and moved several times in 10 yrs I'm more of a travller than they are!

elastamum · 31/08/2011 23:31

We have a traveller site just up the road from us. They tried to expand it illegally but fortunately were evicted pretty fast.

I just wish they would stop nicking my bloody field gates. Have given up puting metal ones on as they get stolen. Even the metal catches on the wooden gates have been taken for scrap. We all know where they go, but everyone is too frightened to do anything.

PerryCombover · 31/08/2011 23:34

butterscotch they are still travellers if they put down roots in order to educate their children

butterscotch · 31/08/2011 23:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

PerryCombover · 31/08/2011 23:48

staying for 10 yrs if you are educating your family is still classified as traveller if that is your tradition and those are your reasons
along with others of course

scotgirl · 31/08/2011 23:48

I listened to a good programme on radio 4 about this a few weeks ago - I think it is here radio 4. It was very interesting and it did make me consider both sides. Generations of families are together and they will be split up. I think lots would move if there was somewhere to move to. There is nowhere to go, except to scattered about council properties and the family structure would be lost.

One interesting point raised was, rather than boosting the local schools, it is harming them as local (non traveller) families are no longer sending their kids to them. Sounds like there is a lot of division at a local level.

WinterIsComing · 31/08/2011 23:49

I have always lived in this town. My parents moved with many others out of East London. My Dad was one of seven and was evacuated during the war when he was three years old, to an uncaring placement, but he doesn't talk about it, ever. He does remember a doodlebug following him down the street but it detonated further along and wiped out his friend's houses.

My Mum (and her siblings) were left behind in Ireland with her grandmother while her Dad fought in the British army (shameful) because it brought money in for his family which wasn't available in his own country. I always wondered why my Grandmother left all her children in Ireland but now I realise it was because she would have been shunned and despised Shock

Eventually when they were all older the children they were brought over.

My Mum and Dad moved to Basildon after marrying at 19 and 20 and after living in a flat in East London. They were thirty when they did and adopted me in '71. Everyone worked in the new town and worked fucking hard. Buses to the factories at 5:30 am. My Mum worked from 7-11:30 in hospital admin even when we were little AND my Dad would pick her up in his old banger of a Reliant Robin while my sister and I slept.

I am not joking when I say that it was an idyllic place to have grown up in. It really was. It was like "Stand By Me", all making camps and picking blackberries. I was much older when the jokes started and when I had to go to school by train because there were no grammar schools in the town, still aren't.

And it has all gone to shit. We don't have a Waitrose Grin but Sainsburys is a no-go area.

PerryCombover · 31/08/2011 23:52

how do you mean it was shameful to fight in the British army? Which war was this?

MollieO · 01/09/2011 00:00

butterscotch I thought you were referring to an Old Windsor village in Berkshire. I didn't realise there was an Old Windsor in Essex!

WinterIsComing · 01/09/2011 00:00

Well he was Irish. Second World War. Ireland was neutral and relations were not good because the British had spent several decades fucking them over.

But he and many other men did what they had to do to support their families all the same.

I always found it very odd that my Grandfather was anti-semitic and I once challenged him about it (as a child of ten) because surely he fought in WW2 on their behalf. No. He fought for the money. No ethics, no principles, no understanding. But he kept his children alive the only way that he could.

worraliberty · 01/09/2011 00:02

Winter Does the area you're talking about begin with 'D'?

PerryCombover · 01/09/2011 00:06

My grandfather and many others did the same. We were catholics from Tipp and the North and like your grandfather only ever did it for the money
We were NEVER shunned for it though as in those days most truly working class people didn't have time for the pretensions and affectations of politics that we do today
It was take the shilling or your family die so people did.
Did they say that was their experience or do you surmise it?

I have a genuine interest in this and have taught experiences of the Irish during the Emergency and we were such a piss poor third world country that these slurs seem to have been added after the fact
Maybe...dunno

PerryCombover · 01/09/2011 00:07

Terrible for them all though

CurrySpice · 01/09/2011 00:07

I think she's talking about Basildon

worraliberty · 01/09/2011 00:09

Ahh thanks Curry I was thinking Dagenham

WinterIsComing · 01/09/2011 00:10

D in Basildon, yes.

Seriously; it was a fantastic place to grow up in. Nobody believes me but it was.

CurrySpice · 01/09/2011 00:12

Basildon is the nearest large town to this site and is the name of the District Council dealing with it.

It affects a much bigger area than just Baz though. I live not far away

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