to think that evicting hundreds of travellers from their site is unfair and immoral

[rocketty]

It's an illegal site. They didn't have planning permission. It's greenbelt...

but it used to be a car scrapyard (not rolling fields and thatched cottages then), they own the land and it's right next to a legal settlement.

They've obviously broken the law by settling here, but on balance, wouldn't it be more ethical to let them be? The children are settled at school and getting an education. Lots of people are prejudiced against gypsies and travellers but they've got to live somewhere.

I've seen the news articles about it. It makes me feel sad.

herbietea I agree absolutely that no-one can be above the law.

I still think it's immoral that we've got to this place where they're being evicted.

No-one wants these people living near them but they have to live somewhere. By giving them a permanent home, the kids go to school so the next generation is better educated and has better life chances. Child mortality among the gypsy and traveller community is shocking, as is their low life expectancy.

And these are mot "mobile homes" at all

This link doesn't look industrial to me shows just how "industrial this spot was before the travellers arrived and, if you look at the date, just how long this has been going on

I posted about this on another thread this morning.
As far as I am aware, travellers planning applications are often rejected because 1) They often apply for retrospective planning, which many planning officers take a dim view on and 2) the plans they submit are for buildings not in keeping with the area.

The only contact/experience I have had with travellers is when they set up camp in a small town very near my home. They stay for about a fortnight on the way to Appleby horse fair. For the two weeks they are there, crime (usually fairly non-existent) soars. The town goes from having two police surgeries a week to having a constant police presence.
Friends of mine had their oil tank drained and their coal house emptied. Owners of horses are warned to stable them overnight.
They leave their rubbish lying around, they empty their loos into the river, and so on.
Based on this, I don't think it's any wonder there is a general distrust for travellers
I don't know what the answer is for them, but I do think it's right that they are moved on.

I agree OP I really do. But you can only begin to imagine the detrimental impact the sudden arrival of a lot of children, many of them with SENs has had on the local school and the kids who were already there.

In defence of Essex CC they have poured money into the school to provide for these traveller children - and quite rightly too imho.

It's not quite so black and white tbh because the local children also have rights and needs and these have been subsumed by this massive influx of people into a community which is simply not big enough to cope with it

No.

Either travel. Or get pp

Curry I think we "spoke" when I posted about the 600+ travellers that descended on Bicknacre a couple of months ago I may be wrong

It was a nightmare, rubbish everywhere, intimidating driving, masses of large families in our very small town (south woodham).

They were urinating and defecating in gardens and all our local shops and bars closed down by 6pm, the police presence was massive and I assume very costly.

I have read that Basildon county council is spending £8m on the eviction and the police are spending £10m and then the council is going to offer council housing in the more run down areas of the community, which the travellers have said they will refuse.

That is so much money and wouldn't it be better spent helping the travellers to rebuild on the legal part of their site?

"The travellers in the area put in mobile homes then insisted that the council supply services as people were living on the land. The council have not been able to charge council tax but must provide services."

That's ridiculous!

When the traveller settlement is small then the impact can be absorbed, as at my dcs' school, but anything larger there are inevitably problems ime. In the next nearest village to us, every child that attends the primary school is a traveller, the village children are all bussed out. There is also a very large traveller site on the edge of the nearest town and because of tremendous problems at the local primary they now have their own school provision on site provided by the LEA.

Don't know how common this is, but all the 7 permanent traveller families that attend dcs' school own property in Ireland.

YABU. But as it's an emotive subject and I am full over super pregnant hormones I will forego giving my opinion in this matter as not to upset anyone :)

That made no sense. As I am full of hormones I will forego giving my real opinion on this :)

Well its an emotive subject for me living nearby to this and the other big travellers site nearby.

A few facts from a local prospective:-
(1) the "travellers" I've encountered have been nice enough on a personal level (in doctors surgery, local cafe etc....) however I did feel very uncomfy when one of them asked me to type in the pin number for their cash card (they had it written down) as she couldn't read - I felt quite threatened (about 6 of them me with a 6month old baby!) but it was fine.

(2) locals here would have more sympathy if they didn't close the A127 (for example) by blocking it so they can do racing...

(3) locals would also have more sympathy if they didn't attack the local midwifes and fire service when they are trying to attend the site to help. Firebrigade getting firebombed and having to get a police escort. Midwifes having to go in twos to visit them.

(4) locals would also have more sympathy if they didn't knick the draincovers from local roads to sell as scrap metal - by doing this not only are they costing the local council money they are also endangering lives.

(5) They are schools locally that nobody wants their kids to go to and one in particular no local children go to because of the travellers and the trouble they cause....threats etc....

(6) Police are too scared to evict them so its unlikely it will happen anytime soon, the local police get bricks/firebombs/fireworks thrown at them, they have already caused considerable distruction to the local area, fly tipping, burning tyres/rubber, "stealing" water and electricity supplies.....

(7) If they paid taxes and didn't drive around the local towns in Bentleys and Top of the range Range Rovers I think we could all feel a bit more sympathy for them.

(8) They have a right like everyone else to education/health services but they should pay for them like everyone else! Its a bit like the immigration discussion, refugees in my mind have every right to refuge but its not a total free loading way, once they are given aslymn they then have a responsibility to become members of society and contribute, and despite the very bad press about aslymn seekers, lots do go to work, make lives for their families and themselves, but you don't hear about this in the press only the negative stuff. (good old daily fail!) Everyone deserves a chance in life, but if you are given an opportunity in my mind you owe it to yourself and those who have helped you to give back to help others.

(9) Lets not forget they have chosen this lifestyle, they have choices, they make their choices like you or I so they aren't really justified IMHO to say they have had no choice/the discussions have been on going for more than two years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(10) House prices near the site have dropped dramatically, people can't get away from it, (not me personally - but I could understand why this would be upsetting/distressing situation is forced on you)

(11) all that said they have to live somewhere and whereever they live people are going to be unhappy!

I think if there was more effort made for them to contribute to society people would feel alot more sympathy/empathy for them!

I think that if they moved off and camped in your road you might have a different view.

I think the term "traveller" is totally inappropriate for these folk. They are a large extended family of Irish descent who used to be travellers but now want to live together and not travel anywhere in houses they don't have planning permission for and ? don't pay council tax for.
I "travelled" more as a kid with my dad changing jobs than most of their kids have.
Most forces kids travel more than these families as well.
The local authority are stupid for not sorting this out years ago when the first illegal buildings went up.
If we do have more "traveller" pitches then they should be for people who want to live a traveller lifestyle with a maximal stay of a few months.
If you want to live in 1 place then live somewhere with planning permission, pay council tax and get a job and pay tax.

I suggest all the 'activists' may not be so pleased if this lot rocked up to Islington or Hampstead and set up camp there next door to them.

The travellers knew they were building illegally and they have had plenty of warning.

Time has come to erm, travel

butterscotch has raised (in rather more emotive terms ) some of the issues I eluded to

I agree that they have a right to live somewhere and I deplore this government's policies with regards to travellers, but this situation has become untenable

And 2rebecca - the council has been trying for nearky 10 years to resolve this issue and could imho have been much more heavy handed had they so chosen. This has not happened overnight. I think rather than being "stupid" they have been trying to do the best by everyone

Am I alone in only seeing traveller women on the news? Where are the blokes?

butterscotch just read that out to DH because he saw a traveller man buying tons of shit in the BP / M&S garage in town while his pre-schooler stuffed his pockets with all sorts. The staff knew and were too afraid to say or do anything.

They then waltzed off to their top-of-the-range RangeRover Sport which was parked in the disabled bay.

I hate that I have typed that. I hate it. I do.

I know that people supposedly become more right-wing as they get older and I define myself as a liberal person but when you live where I live and have to live where I do, with the people surrounding me who would steal from their own as well as the state, to have a moral code, to want to raise your children properly in a culture of accepted degeneracy then tolerance vanishes for those who make no effort.

Haven't the council been trying to evict them for years? I think the difficulty was because the travellers owned the land. Can't remember the details but the news report I saw years ago said something similar. The fact that they have chosen to stay and have children doesn't give them an automatic right to stay. They should have sought and obtained planning permission before having children imo or accepted the risk that they would eventually be evicted.

butterscotch are you referring to W St L? Apparently even though the council has succeeded in getting an eviction order the travellers have been given 18 months to leave. Complete nightmare for local residents.

Male travellers don't like to be filmed or photographed because they are then identified as travellers and loose their jobs as roofers, road workers etc