to think that evicting hundreds of travellers from their site is unfair and immoral

[rocketty]

It's an illegal site. They didn't have planning permission. It's greenbelt...

but it used to be a car scrapyard (not rolling fields and thatched cottages then), they own the land and it's right next to a legal settlement.

They've obviously broken the law by settling here, but on balance, wouldn't it be more ethical to let them be? The children are settled at school and getting an education. Lots of people are prejudiced against gypsies and travellers but they've got to live somewhere.

I've seen the news articles about it. It makes me feel sad.

I understood that the residents of dale farm have already appealed to the European Court of Human Rights. I'm a bit confused as to which appeals were successful and which weren't ?

And why is the UN is intervening if the ECHR has already examined this matter at great length?

The UN Special Rapporteur on Housing plainly doesn't have enough to do in south Asia, central Asia and south America. She obviously needs pointing in the right direction of the greatest need and away from the direction of no need at all.

Errrrr ok...this is obviously an emotive issue. I'm not talking about blame though.
My only argument is that clearly our laws are not tight enough. I absolutely agree that it has cost FAR too much money - money that is desperately needed elsewhere. I am not 'looking for someone else to blame' I am trying to find answers, to stop this from happening again. Yes its obvious the travellers have orchestrated this situation, but the issue is HOW they were able to manipulate the system to do this, and what can we do to stop history repeating itself.

Just because people break the law it doesn't mean they're not tight enough. If someone commits a murder it's not the law's fault, it's the murderer's fault.

From the Telegraph:

"Even the European Court of Human Rights, when it considered planning law, drew back from the conclusion that an exception should be made for ?the gipsy community?. It recognised that evicting gipsies from their homes because they had been built illegally could be a violation of ?the right to family life?. But it nevertheless concluded that it would be wrong to rule that they had a right to live in homes constructed ?in defiance of the law?: such a verdict would only ?encourage illegal action to the detriment of the protection of the environmental rights of other people in the community?."

Had a look at the DM link, it makes depressing reading particularly the bit about the girls guides and also the feeling that some of the people on the illegal site were claiming benefits and had housing association properties to go to which may be sublet?

Also the community centre beggars belief.

I remember that community centre story - what a total utter JOKE that was. If it were not so utterly depressing and infuriating it would be hilarious.

Blueberties. The comment about the murderer and the law is completely missing the point. As I said, we need to address how we can stop this happening again. There is no doubt it is illegal, but why were we powerless to stop it for so long? Obviously there are flaws in the system, are you suggesting we ignore this and don't learn from what has happened here?

I think the flaws are only found by dishonest people who actively want to beat the system.

I completely agree, but once found shouldn't we do something to stop others exploiting those flaws?

"My only argument is that clearly our laws are not tight enough"

It's not the law. It's the law-breakers. The murder analogy is entirely appropriate. The law contains the appropriate checks and balances : these can be abused by unscrupulous people : the unscrupulous people are to blame for this, not the checks and balances.

Ok so lets sit back and have a rant on MN and do nothing. That'll sort it.

BREAKING NEWS ''Dale Farm Travellers get Jewish backing''

Rabbi compares 'vilification' of Travellers to the discrimination Jews faced in the first half of the 20th century

IMO Not helpful to any peaceful resolution.

I so want a 'like' button on here.

I'm out of this thread, tbh any talk of Dale Farm and the evictions makes me stomach churningly angry. One of my dearest friends will be policing there and thought thought of it terrifies me.

And they're not being 'ethnically cleansed' either. Fucksake, they are being moved on from a site they are illegally occupying. They're squatters, not bloody victims. And they've had plenty of opportunity to move out peacefully.

Agree Sarah, re ethnically cleansed.
See my post above :11.34.

What a gutting statement for Jews.

How are the two comparable? Are Essex police stockpiling Zyclon B?

It is being sorted. They're being evicted.

Yes their situation is nothing like the horror the Jews experienced.

Blue, honestly I haven't the stomach to get involved in this thread and this is my last post on it. I don't feel as if any sort of reasoned debate can issue from a starting point where such appalling language is being flung around. No one would dream of using the same words about black people/Jewish people/etc.

The council are being very calm in the face of all this.

I think that's because there's a realisation that the general zeitgest of public opinion will be as this thread, and that if they have to use physical force people will understand why.

People have just had enough. They're sick of being told they're in the wrong and must pay when, quite simply, they aren't and are the victims instead.

I think horror at the riots may have set the field for this. There are regular people who have just had enough of other people taking the fricking piss.

Well, given people's experiences, I'm more shocked at the experiences than the language used to describe them. Some of it has been too much for me but in general it's easy to see that the language used is about the people who carried out damage, broke the law, were unpleasant in the direct experience of the poster.

And some of those experiences - well they truly are shocking and appalling. As is the fact that this group and their planning crime has cost local people 18 million pounds at the very least. That is shocking and appalling. I guess it's a case of priorities.

My post got deleted. The one where I explained my experiences. That included being barged, pushed and roughly groped in the village shop at the age of 14.

"I think horror at the riots may have set the field for this."

I think you may well have a point there, Blueberties. Those incidents have captured people's attention, made people think about behaviour in general and what we, at large, consider acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Possibly, it has hardened our attitudes (not saying whether this is a good or a bad thing, mainly because I'm not sure myself).