to think that evicting hundreds of travellers from their site is unfair and immoral

[rocketty]

It's an illegal site. They didn't have planning permission. It's greenbelt...

but it used to be a car scrapyard (not rolling fields and thatched cottages then), they own the land and it's right next to a legal settlement.

They've obviously broken the law by settling here, but on balance, wouldn't it be more ethical to let them be? The children are settled at school and getting an education. Lots of people are prejudiced against gypsies and travellers but they've got to live somewhere.

I've seen the news articles about it. It makes me feel sad.

I thought it was the other way around SW!

Well I have to say I am rather lacking in knowledge tbh

senior is right roma are a sub group .but there are a lot of other msaller sub groups as well just to confuse everyone

it all depends where you from and what dilect you speak .spot my family background anyone

Where did my last post go? I think I may have parked it in the wrong place.

If the locals have been putting up with this for ten years then shame on the LA, because yes, they do owe the taxpayers more. The trouble is, while the Travellers are incredibly annoying, much of what they do is borderline illegal only. They push the envelope. They are not nice middle class families or even nice working class families.

And if I were some other LA in the region I would be wondering where they will all end up, because the one thing that is certain is that they will end up somewhere. They are not going to vanish. Until the local authorities get their act together they will all in turn end up dealing with the same problems over and over again and doing nothing but trying to wash their hands of one particular group is not doing any favours to either the taxpayers of their LA or anyone else's. You can say it's the Travellers' fault and of course it would be fantastic for all if they would just roll over and stop it immediately, but experience has shown that they are not going to do this. It is time for some rational policy and for legislators and local authorities to come up with some good ideas. Moving them on is not the solution for the long run. Of course if taxpayers are happy to keep on forking money over to bailiffs and masses of police then fine.

I lived beside a family (not Travellers) like that growing up in Ireland and the county council and Gardai could do absolutely nothing to prevent any of the upheaval in the neighbourhood that resulted from their presence -- not the rat problem that happened when they kept chickens and chicken feed in the garden (but a neighbour's terrier ended all that on e dark and stormy night), nor the gangs of youths who were the friends of the children using the garden hedges as public toilets, nor the blasting of rockabilly hits all summer long, nor the truancy until they really pushed it. They have applied for pp for houses in the garden continuously for the last 10 years and the neighbours have each paid ?50 each to lodge an appeal to every single application. It has cost my mother ?200 on a bad year. They are happy to keep on applying for pp (which is costing them each time), the architect is happy to take their money for the plans, the council is happy to take their application money and the neighbours' appeal money even though every single appeal is upheld and every single appeal is based on the same three reasons (density, traffic and sewers).

someones now going to be looking at your post and going what !!!.

oh and for the record i know its hard that people that have been there for 10 years are being moved on but end of day permisson is not given and it is a case of where do you draw the line

To be honest Fellatio, there are days I just look the other way and hope nobody loses an eye.

There was a time when all the Irish used to be like the Travellers though or at least we had the reputation of preferring fists and shillealaghs over civilised discourse. Hence 'Donnybrook' and 'fightin Irish', etc.

I wish they would make a bit more of an effort to communicate with the local community in a productive way, then there might be a bit more of a positive relationship on both sides.

yes there is a lot of distrust on both sides .They can come across as very defenve and close people out

Although it seem's harsh this is the reality of breaking the law. It's illegal. They had the land and should have (and maybe did) go through planning. If they weren't granted permission then they would have to give up on that idea like everyone else in this country. I have a property set in over a third of an acre of land. It would be wonderful to build 2 other houses on there for my DC but we would NOT get planning so that's that. If the travellers are allowed to break the law then what would the councils do regarding pp?

perhaps there needs to be more knowledge of who is buying the land in the first place. Are the land registry aware of sales. I really don't know anything about this.

also maybe it is worth the councils paying overtime for someone to be on the ready over bank holidays which would prevent the illegal camps starting in the first place. as often the camps are set up during this time.

My knowledge is that Romany gypsies are from this country,Roma are Roumanian gypsies and travellers are from Ireland,I may be wrong but after 25 years living in the Romany gypsy culture that is their take on it.

Romany gypsies (in my part of the country) realised years ago that their traditional way of life was becoming unsustainable and realised that they had to move with the times,girls are now fully educated,my dd is at a selective grammar school and a fair few girls that I know have gone to uni.My other dc,s all work ,pay their taxes and ni contributions.
This is where the difference comes with the Irish travellers,they are still living in the past,it strikes me as from victorian times,the way the treat their woman.They have to realise that we are living in the 21st century.
SeniorWrangler-you make a very good point,they need to realise that they need to integrate with the settled community but I think they would cite the animosity and racial hatred they receive as as a reason for their attitude.

Mediation?

"Romany gypsies (in my part of the country) realised years ago that their traditional way of life was becoming unsustainable"

This is the heart of the matter really, isn't it? A nomadic lifestyle was sustainable once, alongside the settled community of the day. But the settled community has changed massively, and the Traveller community has not evolved alongside it. There's no "fit" any more. The work that once was available doesn't exist any more. And so the nomads become parasitic (for want of a better word) and the settleds become resentful.

"but I do think that racial comments against gypsies and travellers"

this is the first thing I read

they are white caucasian aren't they?

Yes they are.

Alemci, if you are suggesting preventing the sale of land to Travellers then you are suggesting something illegal.

Roma are not all Romanian by any means. Some of them are but that's not where the name is from. Description of various groups

You just can't do that. You can't say: "Well they must be an ethnic minority because most people hate their often illegal and anti-social behaviour". You just can't justify it like that.

They are as much an ethnic minority or racially apart as town people are to country people.

~Gotta say Math your link is not supportive of the Irish traveller ethnic case.

This is what it has to say:

"The so-called Irish Gypsies are not Roma but Travellers. However, there are some ethnic Roma in Ireland, but they are Scottish Gypsies that settled or stay temporarily in Ireland."

I mean, aren't they just - Irish people?