to think that evicting hundreds of travellers from their site is unfair and immoral

[rocketty]

It's an illegal site. They didn't have planning permission. It's greenbelt...

but it used to be a car scrapyard (not rolling fields and thatched cottages then), they own the land and it's right next to a legal settlement.

They've obviously broken the law by settling here, but on balance, wouldn't it be more ethical to let them be? The children are settled at school and getting an education. Lots of people are prejudiced against gypsies and travellers but they've got to live somewhere.

I've seen the news articles about it. It makes me feel sad.

they own the land, don't they? the travellers, that is? if so yanbu. yanbu even if they don't, actually.

They are not part of the Romany heritage. I think that might be where a lot of misunderstanding is coming from. They are Irish.

I think the burqa does do some harm, in that it 'others' women within society, making them seem odd and different, and changes the public perceptions of women who don't wear the burqa, making them seem potentially promiscuous to some men, putting them at risk. At the very least it can lead to the uncovered being thought of as undeserving of the same level of respect as the covered.

An anecdote. In my youth I was regularly stalked by men from Arab countries on the tube because despite my demure Laura Ashley tendencies, I conformed to their stereotype of what a sexy woman looked like, and I have to say the fact I was uncovered in a religious sense made me think they were making assumptions about my potential promiscuity on that basis. It was really rather upsetting.

Hang on then, if you're Irish that means you can announce that you are a traveller and then do what the fuck you like with regard to planning laws, school and the like????

I've no idea. I do know that on DD2's school admission criteria Traveller children are right at the top of priorities, above children in care and siblings.

Which is fucking unfair imo.

SeniorWrangler, they don't speak Romany because they are not actually Gypsies/Roma. They are Travellers. Not the same thing at all.

And bare knuckle fighting among children has been practiced by my own DCs on many an occasion. From now on I will come down heavy on it if it is in breach of the law.

You can't simultaneously complain about them taking their children out of school and using local amenities at a net cost to the locality. They are saving the community money by not attending school, right? If you're going to complain, at least be logical.

When people keep on posting that the Travellers should simply be 'moved on' or take the next boat back to Ireland, what is being suggested is really a sort of cleansing. To suggest it is not ethnic cleansing because they don't constitute a separate ethnicity is hair splitting. It is very obvious that posters consider the Travellers to be completely 'other', alien and even foreign.

Nobody wants to understand that moving on involves moving to some other place in the UK. Doesn't matter where as long as it's down the road and somewhere else. The preferred solution seems to be 'back to Ireland with them' (never mind that many were born in Britain and many families have lived in Britain for generations), much on the lines of the old Enoch Powell refrain.

Sarah it's the same with DS' mainstream pre-school.

It's costing us in Essex either way. The eviction will cost. The legal action has cost yet the specialist pre-school for children with disabilities which is part council-funded and which he benefited from enormously has been closed. God knows what else has been taken away from people who pay government and council tax.

The eviction is going to cost hideous amounts. They are drafting police in from all over.

Why does their race matter? They are there illegally plain and simple. If an exception was made based on their race it would be racist.

I really meant that I had a problem with people arbitrarily using health and social care services with absolutely no intention ever of paying any tax or so on, or contributing to local democratic processes. I would not confine that to travellers - I feel the same about multimillionaires opting out of all this as well.

Sarah..what evidence do you have that says the majority of them own houses in Ireland?

Some may well own properties in Ireland but how do you know that the majority do?

The houses back in Ireland thing -- we know this for a fact or is this a rumour?

Same for the claiming benefits back in Ireland bit -- fact or fancy?

If they're travellers, how come they own houses elsewhere?

What do Roma people think about Irish travellers, I wonder?

Really? Oh God.

It must be a staffing nightmare in the school too. Very inefficient for any business to never know how many staff one needs on any given day and temporary day-to-day teachers are expensive. The budget allocated must be erm, a bit larger in that respect alone.

Just read the eviction is going to cost £18 million.

A lot of Roma do look down on irish travellers as giving Roma gypsoes a bad name as people tend to think of them as the same .When in fact they are completley differnet

They openly talked about them on BFGW. And it's been on a previous programme too.

Math but the difference is that if your children sort out their differences using violence, you would, I presume, dissuade them and intervene. In Traveller culture it seems positively encouraged for children to learn to sort out disputes with their fists. Or just beat one another up for fun/money. I get the impression they teach their boys to fight like we teach ours to read or use cutlery.

Not attending school while being on the roll doesn't save anyone money - the school will be staffed for the number of kids registered to attend

I think the OP is BU
The eviction should happen - 10 years of wrangling - it's not exactly a surprise eviction is it?

We need to differentiate between Roma and Romany now!

I just read on Wikipaedia that it's likely all Irish travellers have a common ancestor. Wonder if that's true?

Roma is a sub set of Romani, I think.