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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How many years is it going to take before 18 year olds realise that going to Uni is only worth it for about 20% of people

156 replies

Hammy02 · 19/08/2011 10:18

I went to an old poly and wish I hadn't as it didn't make much difference to my career prospects. DP went to a 'proper' Uni and earns about 60K so it was worth it for him. All I did was waste my time. Many students will now be racking up such huge debts that it will hugely impact their future. AIBU?

OP posts:
timidviper · 20/08/2011 13:55

Fabby The worth of a degree is not judged solely on the salary you earn at the end of it, nor going to the "right" university to do maths or similar.

DSs friends are also 23 and their earnings vary dramatically, as does their happiness which is not always in proportion with their earnings.

It's great for you and them if your boys genuinely enjoy maths and love the jobs they are aiming for but the implications in some posts is that those following other paths are somehow less successful. It wouldn't do for everybody to have the same aims in life and whilst I agree with you that doing a degree in surfing at the University of F knows where may not be financially advantageous, it is sometimes surprising to look at CEOs, etc and see the range of experiences, etc that set them on their path to success.

Corvax · 20/08/2011 14:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scottishmummy · 20/08/2011 14:12

my degree to qualifies me to work in chosen field.
so for me it was essential to go to uni.i didn't skive either.i worked hard
other students had 8hr week and did doss about

acumenin · 20/08/2011 14:15

Obviously if everybody went to university to do maths they would not all be guaranteed a job earning megabucks. My brother is a City quant and I agree it's a great life for him individually, but obviously if everybody in England did it we'd starve to death in a week. It's useful if you're exceptionally bright in some particular ways but not so much for most of us, I think.

If you do a degree and most people don't, it gives you more choices because you can exploit your scarcity, but if everyone does a degree then it doesn't give you any advantage. Surely this is clear: the more people do degrees the less they are worth.

As a society, imo, it's not a great plan to pretend all this stuff we do is omgsoochallenging. Working at the local council processing housing claims is not beyond someone educated adequately to age 16, at the very generous max. Unless you are likely to really grasp, in a creative, innovative and productive way, computer sciences, there is no actual intellectual need to do a degree to administrate an IT system or write basic software. Most of the available work is not very difficult and could be learnt as an apprentice or through simply joining an open source development and doing a bit at the weekend. Minding kids is useful but writing essays about it is not so much, again unless you're exceptionally insightful. It's not useful for us, collectively, to devalue higher education in this way or to artificially inflate the bar needed to get rubbish jobs doing boring things. Who does it help? Not kids.

chubsasaurus · 20/08/2011 14:17

Universities are meant to be elite research institutions, Labour's target was just ridiculous. Most professions do not require a degree.

scottishmummy · 20/08/2011 14:19

many professsions are degree entry only
health
eg nurse,ot,physio,medicine,salt
social work
architect
teaching
so if you have a vocational career in mind you need to go to uni

VivaLeBeaver · 20/08/2011 14:21

But if you don't go to uni what prospects do you have, what can you do instead? It's probably fine if you want to do something like car mechanics, plum ing, etc but aside from that what is there.

It's depressing that most junior admin jobs are now going to people with degrees. So if you don't have one then what's left? Cleaning, shop work?

I do agree that too many people are going to uni, which is why we,re ending up with graduates in admin jobs. But I also agree that going to uni and doing a degree for the sake of a love of learning is worthwhile. My first degree was fairly useless from a career prospect point of view but I enjoyed it and am glad I did it. I then went back and did a more vocational degree which is needed for my current job.

I do hope that more large companies set up apprentice type schemes, not just practical apprenticeships but in areas such as banking, retail management, etc.

TheBride · 20/08/2011 14:30

You can become a chartered accountant without a degree

maypole1 · 20/08/2011 14:37

I believe you can become solicitor with out a degree it dose take ages but you can do it.

Also you do not need a art degree to be a artist I believe many artist were just discovered

maypole1 · 20/08/2011 14:38

Oh and you used to be able to e a nurses without a degree

Tidybush · 20/08/2011 14:42

VivaLeBeaver I've just been on an apprenticeship search site with DD1 to get an idea of what's around (she's about to go into yr 13 and is looking at a plan B if she doesn't get in to her chosen field of HE). Within a 10 mile radius of my address there are over 1800 vacancies in a massive range of roles. Not just traditional mechanics, engineers etc, but also operational management, business admin, book keeping, retail, front of house in the hospitality sector.

I must admit I was amazed just how much is out there as I too had bought in to the idea that my DCs must to to uni and follow an academic route to have any kind of chance these days.

scottishmummy · 20/08/2011 14:44

im not sure why you're all so down on uni education
no its not be all end all,but its a good basis to have options and opportunity to access lots jobs, courses

Tidybush · 20/08/2011 14:47

I don't think it's a case of being down on an uni education but more of acknowledgement that it's not for everyone and that not having a uni education is not the end of the world.

doesthisseemright · 20/08/2011 14:49

corvax I agree with that 100%

scottishmummy · 20/08/2011 14:52

make good appropriate choices.yes.
apply yourself and work hard at whatever you find yourself doing.whether that is university or work.and work is a good career path too internal training and pathway.but sometimes uni and degree is a quicker route too

adamschic · 20/08/2011 14:59

The irony is that the ones who you think shouldn't be going, the not very bright and doing courses which won't lead to a well paid career, will be funded entirely by the tax payer. They probably won't pay much if anything back. So they might as well go and have 3 years living on what are effectively grants.

The ones who won't be wasting their time and get into well paid careers will be paying the fees and loans back to the government over 30 years.

Saying that not everyone who wants to go can go. This year, for obvious reasons, placed just aren't available.

CubiksRube · 20/08/2011 15:08

I always thought I'd push my DCs into university - everyone in my family and DP's family went, so naturally thought our kids would, too.

If the situation remains the same, though, DS will have to prove to us why we should support him through university, and what makes it 'worth it' for him to spend three more years in education. The reasons my be financial or emotional, but they've got to be good.

Of course DP and I would be most comfortable if DS went down the academic route like us, but now ... well, MIL's plumber has THREE children in an expensive private school and has paid off the mortgage on a lovely mews house in Zone 2. Hmm.

SnoozleDoozle · 20/08/2011 15:10

I live, and went to university, in Northern Ireland, where as far as I know there have historically been more graduates per head of population than in the rest of the UK. Ironically, graduate jobs here are few and far between (with the exception obviously of medicine, law etc), and as a result the real 'currency' when job hunting is experience. In my second year of university I attended the careers dept to be told that to have any hope of graduate level employment, I would really have little choice but to move to England. This wasn't a possibility for me (although I would dearly love to have done so) and so I sat through the second half of my degree not really enjoying it, knowing that I was doomed at the end, but scared to drop out, as I had always been taught that no one likes a quitter.

A degree is relatively simple to get, but I found it impossible to get into my preferred field of work because I had no experience. In about ten years of searching, I did not see a single entry level job in the field I wanted to work in, every single vacancy, even the minimum wage ones, specified a minimum of two years experience. So, I would say there are twin problems at play - that of too many graduates, and that of unrealistic expectations by employers. I have never come across an employer who values the mythical 'transferrable skills', in general job ads specify very clearly that 'applicants must have x number of years experience doing X job' and that's that, no room for negotiation, no room for 'I haven't done this, but I would really love to learn to'. And yet, for all that, I hear business representatives on TV and radio all the time complaining that they can't find people with skills to fill the vacancies they have. Maybe if employers were more willing to support people who are willing to learn (and I don't necessarily mean financially), the jobs market would be better all round, degrees or no degrees.

missmiss · 20/08/2011 16:06

Education for education's sake is a great thing, but I really don't think the kids with 3 Ds at A-level, studying media at the University of South Burnley, are driven by a spirit of intellectual inquiry. They're there because there's nothing else for them to do, because the entry-level office and call centre jobs they'll end up working in now require a degree, simply because everyone these days has one. It's a self-perpetuating cycle.

VivaLeBeaver · 20/08/2011 17:17

TidyBush - I've found that apprenticeship search site and searched for our area in a 10mile radius and not a single one. We don't live in the middle of nowhere, there's a medium city 7 miles away.

doesthisseemright · 20/08/2011 17:20

We have been looking for an apprenticeship for ds for quite some time now and they are few and far between, believe me.

Tidybush · 20/08/2011 17:41

Perhaps we are lucky in this area (West Mids) but when I just logged back on to the site there are over 5000 adverts nationally with just over 10000 vacancies. Not sure of the spread across the country.

How easy it is to actually get onto one though is another matter.

FlyMeToTheMooncup · 20/08/2011 18:10

I'm in west sussex and there were heaps. Didn't realise it wasn't the same everywhere :( I'm really lucky the council had a big initiative to get 200 apprentices by 2011, I was one of the last, and we are getting a pretty good deal. I guess private companies, especially small ones, are less willing to take the risk on an apprentice? A friend of mine has also said her local vacancies ask for 16-19yrs, even though the age limit has been lifted (we have apprentices over 50)

Migsy1 · 20/08/2011 18:21

Degrees seem to be handed out like sweets these days. What's the point? There are far too many people studying for degrees. The Gov should have concentrated on apprenticeships. I will not be encouraging my boys to go to "uni" unless they want to study for a vocational qualification. If one of them said that he wanted to do English or History I would be most unimpressed.

littlebluespring · 20/08/2011 18:29

Migsy, I think it is still worth studying traditional subjects such as English or History if you want to be a Secondary school teacher. You can't train to be a Secondary school teacher unless you have a subject area degree first.

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