How many years is it going to take before 18 year olds realise that going to Uni is only worth it for about 20% of people

[Hammy02]

I went to an old poly and wish I hadn't as it didn't make much difference to my career prospects. DP went to a 'proper' Uni and earns about 60K so it was worth it for him. All I did was waste my time. Many students will now be racking up such huge debts that it will hugely impact their future. AIBU?

LadyThumb is talking nonsense. Economic migrants only "pick lettuces or plough the fields" for as long as it takes for them to start taking better jobs!
On the general point, it will be many years before 18 year olds realise this. They have been shamefully tricked into believing that degrees are going to get them a good job (or a job at all) and are led by peer pressure into thinking that it's a good time in different place for 3 years, getting drunk and having fun. In reality, governments see them as a way of keeping young people out of a saturated jobs market for 3 years. The wealthy end up dominating virtually all of the good jobs in the end anyway...youngsters from the "lower" classes are too naive to realise that at their age.

What do you mean by "worth it?"

Financially?

Not everything can be measured in pounds shillings and pence.

What about the old fashioned notion of education for the joy and sake of it?

I loved uni. I have no idea whether I would have earned more or less if I hadn't gone.

I feel sorry for 18YOs today - so much pressure financially :(

People can't afford education for education's sake, while they are racking up thousands of pounds worth of debt while they could be working. I feel sorry for young people these days, there are students with straight As not getting into university after years of studying to achieve that.

It is unlikely that next year will be any better as many of the thousands who didn't get on this year will be trying next year. I wouldn't have much of a counter argument for our youngsters if they feel extremely let down, even deceived.

What about the old fashioned notion of education for the joy and sake of it?

Sadly I think that it has gone out of the window with the treadmill of education and teaching to the test and the need to get at least a 2:1.

'Education for education's sake' disappeared when as one astute poster commented, the job which used to require o's from a grammar needs a degree.

As for those of you who believe that degrees currently cater for the academically elite with three C's and above - I would suggest you take a look at ucas clearing and .... uh 'educate' yourselves. Also, whilst you're there, admire the varied courses and institutions.

Nothing wrong with a first in philosophy, great! But don't you dare tell these dumb kids that a first from kings is the same as a first from uhi in ceramics!

I have mixed feelings on this. I did a (I know this is a phrase that vexes people on here, and understandably so) 'traditional-academic-degree-from-a-Russell-Group-university' (there, I said it!) and it was .....ok. I have some fond memories of it, but I don't look back and think 'ooh, best three years of my life'. I remember feeling fairly miserable for three years because I hated having no money, hated the fact that I was still wearing the same clothes that my mum had bought me in sixth form, because I couldn't afford new ones, and hated living in a grotty house, where we couldn't afford to put the heat on. I made one really good friend, who I am still in touch with, and ......thats it really. It was detrimental to me career wise, because I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I rarely see employers asking for a degree, its experience that they want, and experience is the one thing that a degree can't give you, and no matter how enthustiastic and keen to learn you are (as I was, when I left university) if you don't have the experience, you can't get a foot in the door for anything. To the poster earlier who said 'no one ever regrets their degree' I can assure you that sadly they do. I do, and many of my friends do too.

The thing is in school, when I was at school anyway, there's nothing else ever talked about or offered. No other way of life is modeled, so of course everyone is going to want to go. If you tell people the way to be a person is to go to university, the thoroughly-socialised will aspire to same. Unless you've got a family member who runs a business or has a trade, how are you to know how to do it? I'm all for self-motivation and autodidactism but isn't part of the point of school to actually tell kids about things, to teach them things? Like maybe how to get a job, how to start a business, how to do accounts, what an apprenticeship is, how minimum payment credit card agreements are a bad idea, how to drive, how to plaster a wall, how to resuscitate someone...

I just don't know what the point of school was at all, after learning to read and write and the number line. It was a waste of time, and a bit cruel really, to make one sit in a sweaty, cramped sixties block all day being shouted at about trivial, easily googleable facts like the life expectancy of Brazilians compared to Italians when one might as well have been running around in the sunshine or learning interesting things like quantum physics and computer programming. University seems like it's even worse, because at the end of it, with living costs, you've got the deposit for a house or a business startup's worth of debt around your neck with not anything like the added earning potential to service it.

It would be better to open university lectures, libraries and journals to everyone and stop paying for individuals, imo, but obv that would never happen, because the academic model is all about controlling access to information.

When i was doing my nurse training nearly twenty years ago we were affiliated to the university [ although now its mainly degree level so part of the university] i lived in uni accomadation and saw many people doing what we termed micky mouse course useless pointless degrees if the system went back to how it used to be with proper degree courses leading to a career and only the most able students being able to go then surely tution fees student loans would be much lower and degrees would actually lead to better prospects

I'm going to go against the tide of opinion here.

As a graduate with an academic degree from a rg uni I used to be pretty pissed off at all the graduates from ex polys with not v academic degrees competing with me for jobs. Then, as the decade drew on I saw them being stuck in lowly admin/ call centre jobs and felt very sorry for them, having run up so much more debt than me 'for nothing'.

But now, when I talk to friends who didnt go to uni (however clever) I see an 'knowledge and understanding deficit'. They cant write at length on a subject, they cant skim read large documents or books and evaluate them. They tend not to have ever mixed with (and certainly not lived with) diverse people from across the uk/ abroad. Their vocabulary is smaller. They dont have as good budgeting skills. They arent as confident and ambitious. And most importantly they have lower aspirations for their dcs.

Im sure there is research that shows that a strong indicator of a childs scolastic attainment is THE MOTHERS level of education.(so you could infer that all wannabe samhs should get degrees).

My degree subject has been useful in my current career, but not necessary for it. It was a fantastic experience and I wouldn't change it for anything.

I met some great people, learned some interesting things, developed great critical thinking skills.

My DH says the same about his degree.

We won't be encouraging our children to go, however. If they want to, that is up to them. We can't afford to contribute to their extortionate fees so they will be on their own.

Neither my husband or I earn more as a result of our degrees which is fine because we only have maintenance loans to repay (just missed student grants!)

But would my experience have been worth an additional £9k a year on top of my maintenance loan? No. It wouldn't.

Despite the spin on this, I think this is the Tory's way of reversing Labour's decision to get 50% of the population to uni. If 50% of the population can't/won't pay the higher tuition fees then that will reduce the number of people applying. I agree that more focus should now be put onto vocational training routes which are far more appropriate to some careers than a degree (the stage management degree being a perfect example).

foreverwino, I don't think it should take 21 years to teach anyone without serious cognitive impairment to read a book and pay their bills. I think that's a pretty low ambition you've got there, tbh.

I'm not so sure that isn't just because they are small town people who haven't moved far, haven't travelled much, and haven't mixed across a wide social circle and haven't taken advantage of the education they have received.

Being much older I have a wide circle of family, friends and acqaintances who are at the top of their careers, without having gone to university but they have moved around, living in different countries, done courses, had to mix with all levels of society-have even got OBE's because of their career. They include someone who started at a supermarket stacking shelves and is now in charge of the graduate training scheme or who went into the navy as a stoker and ended up as lieutenant commander.
I went to secondary modern school and went to university, but I look at old class mates and they have had fascinating careers, run their own businesses, one has become a naturalised Swiss citizen, another is supplying cruise ships in the Bahamas-I haven't looked for ages to remember. Some went to university later-you don't have to do it at 18yrs. Undoutedly there are those who just got a local, unskilled job, lived near parents, brought up DCs to do the same.

Sadly I think that all those routes (through the university of life and experience on the job) will get closed off, as a degree becomes a 'must' and a 2:1 minimum becomes a 'must'. Another thread has a young woman with a 3rd class degree and the careers advisor told her it qualified her for work in a shop! That is a lot of debt for something that people used to do at 16yrs from my secondary modern! I think it very poor advice and she wasn't taking it.

Sorry-I was replying to foreverwino-things moved on in the meantime!

It took me one 'openings' course with the OU to learn how to read, take notes and write essays.

It is true that I didnt have a clue before I did this 10 week, part time, distance course. But it really didnt take me long to pick it up and it cost me about £60.

Everyone should go to uni, if that's what they want. Being educated to that level should be seen as a desireable thing. No-one should be penalised for not going to university. A degree shouldn't be a 'must' for a job. But it is employers who tell young people that that's what they want.

YANBU. It's all very well wanting the "education for education's sake" ethos - I certainly do, I am an uber geek :o - but you just can't have that when uni is so outrageously expensive. My dad did geography at cambridge, and hasn't ever used his degree - but it didn't matter then as he wasn't paying for it so he could do it for fun.

I am halfway through a maths degree with the OU. I had to take a break though as DH got a severe injury and I've had to take on the breadwinner role, and I'm doing an apprenticeship (thankfully my local council pay apprentices decent wages!) so I still get qualifications. I also get the chance to do further studying and qualify as a librarian without doing FT study. Not sure what to do - that route sounds fab but I am still yearning for more maths...

Oooh, do the library bit, Mooncup, then press on with the maths. Library qualifications are expensive; I've been looking at a few positions and they would require me to take another MA. I already have one in a related subject but it's Librarianship that they require!

My DS went to a Russell university with a science subject. He isn't doing a degree related career and I don't think, on hindsight, that he needed to go. He differs in opinion because he had a great time. It seems to me, however, to have been a very expensive finishing school! There is no doubt he gained a lot from it in terms on confidence and friendship, but I'm not sure it was worth that amount of money.

It would be worth it for more people if they took the right degree, not some of these silly degrees just because it is something they are interested in as opposed to being something that will help them get a job.

Take a proper degree in something useful and it will help them get a better job with a better pay.

My son just finished and has walked out of Uni at 23 with a job paying 50k a year plus bonuses in his first year after six months he gets a 5k bonus.

Nah, corvax, the debts don't work like that. But I do agree that it's been specifically designed so that plenty of capable young adults think they can't afford it and that uni is not for them. Outrageous.

Can I throw in a relevant stat here?

70% of women (under the new scheme) will never fully repay their student loans, so for most it wont actually be as expensive as some seem to believe.

My DSS is a prime example of your OP, anyway. He got his heart set on being a forensic scientist at age 10, thanks to an obsession with CSI and the like. He's a clever lad but very lazy - academically at least. But his Saturday job has turned into a potential career - he is incredibly hard working and has got promotions and training coming out of his ears. Yet he's still off to uni, and I'm not sure why. It seems like it's just what he thinks he ought to do, but unless he knuckles down and actually studies, it's not going to be worth his while or worth the debt.

I know plenty of people who have great degrees (including from Oxbridge et al) who can't get jobs as they've no experience in the Real World. DH feels quite strongly against the "graduate recruitment" schemes in retail - he's met so many eager graduates who are shoved straight into management with irrelevant degrees and who've no idea how a shop actually works.

I'm all for degrees, but what really pisses me off is the ones like psychology where some degrees aren't approved by the BPS - waste of time.

DS took the wrong degree, he was too young to know what sort of engineering he wanted to do so settled for a science subject as a broad base. By the time he finished he had worked out what sort of engineering but it was too late. 18yrs is very young. I think that too many just go off to do a subject they like/are good at and haven't a clue where they want to go afterwards. Those that did something like dentistry knew where they were going and are now earning huge sums!

forever doesnt that mean that 70% of women will therefore never earn enough to have to pay off their loan?

Doesnt that defeat the object?

TBH I would hate to live with that amount of debt even if I didnt have to pay it back. I would hang over me and cause stress.