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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this is the worst example of gender bollocks I've found?

348 replies

nenevomito · 18/08/2011 10:05

So the Studio Christmas book arrived on my doorstep yesterday. I once ordered some personalised pencils and have forever more been on their radar.

I have had to put it away as I am so fucking angry that they are selling shite like this.
I want to be Girls dress up set

A horse rider, a maid, a nurse a ballerina or a beautician.

A Maid???? Yeah set the bar high on aspiration there you knobbers.

So what about the boys set? Is it as pathetic?

I want to be boys dress up

A businessman, a pilot, an astronaut, a postman and a policeman.

How the hell have we got to 2011 where this shit is still acceptable. I am not saying that girls shouldn't want to be those things, but why the hell isn't the girls "I want to be dress up set" - Doctor, business woman, pilot, astronaut?

Maid???? You are SHITTING me Studio!

Then I made the mistake of searching for girls roleplay and discovered they carried on with the theme. Sure. Why not. Let me set aspiration and expectation in my daughter by dressing her as a maid and giving her the laundry set complete with pink fucking whirlygig washing line. for the Girls roleplay

I don't often rant on here but Angry.

OP posts:
Ephiny · 18/08/2011 11:18

Hmm, thinking about it some more, I wonder if some small children are assuming that the female doctors that they meet are actually nurses, and that all the men they see in a medical context are doctors? I mean, they probably don't understand the differences between the roles at that age, and may have got the impression that 'doctor' and 'nurse' are just terms for men and women respectively who work in a hospital or similar?

tethersend · 18/08/2011 11:19

There is nothing wrong with these job roles (or pink, or sparkly things) per se- it is the value society ascribes to them which irks.

We should be questioning why these jobs have such a low status instead of simply rejecting them as dress up play for our daughters.

tethersend · 18/08/2011 11:21

What I mean is, why are we reinforcing the notion that a nurse is a low-status role when the status of nursing is low because nurses are mainly/traditionally women?

Gotabookaboutit · 18/08/2011 11:26

What the FUCK is wrong about being a waitress or a waiter - if the person doing that job is happy and fulfilled??? I see more bloody wrong with ''jobs'' being put down than just not buying some tat from a crap (love their multi pack cards and cheap gift bags ;() - catalogue.

This is some of the problem with our society and some of the ''youth'' in particular. Manual/service/childcare work is not respected. We have become so materialistic, that just being happy in your job is not seen as enough. Aspirational education is great but has become unrealistic as was the 50% going to university model.

We need a higher minimum wage and John Lewis rules on senior pay.

AbsDuCroissant · 18/08/2011 11:28

My two nephews favourite game at their grandparents house is "ironing" (my DM bought them a wooden iron, which has a "plug").

I just can't wait until they're old enough to graduate onto the real iron and can do my shirts while I drink coffee.

SiamoFottuti · 18/08/2011 11:31

The world is over-run with happy and fulfilled waitresses, and its a job you want your children to aspire to?
Oh please. Hmm

You have to deal with the world you live in, not your own utopian vision.

gaaagh · 18/08/2011 11:35

Can I just point out to the folks screaming "what's wrong with being an XYZ", that's not actually what a good many posters (myself included) have a problem with.

We've already detailed that the real problem with this sort of gender stereotyping is encouraging DDs to consider a narrow, selective view of what occupations are suitable to them.

Let's be clear so that we can do away with all the straw men abounding on this thread:

I don't think anyone has said "urgh, I won't allow my DD to become a nurse, how shameful, she'll be a doctor".

The problem is confining your DDs to "suitable / female" jobs and having this constantly reinforced by toys, hotels, attitudes, language, whatever.

Did feminism never fucking log on the radar of some folk?

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 18/08/2011 11:40

There is nothing wrong with being or wanting to be a nurse, or to wait tables, of course there isn't. I think the OP's point is that this dress-up kit is depressingly gender-biased and seems to suggest that girls should want to be nurses and waitresses ONLY, and boys should want to be astronauts and police officers ONLY. I agree with those upthread who said the sets shouldn't be gendered at all. It is fecking depressing.

squeakytoy · 18/08/2011 11:42

Most jobs do not require a uniform.

Children like dressing up and playing games of pretend, and it does not mean that is going to be the limit of their aspirations as they grow older at all.

hocuspontas · 18/08/2011 11:42

The sets are called 'I want to be...', that is why waitress is wrong. If my dds aspired to working 12 hr shifts, on their feet, being abused by customers and for a minimum wage for the whole of their working lives I would wonder what I'd done wrong. As an outfit for dressing up it's ok but could easily be gender non-specific but not as part of an 'ambition' playset.

MumblingRagDoll · 18/08/2011 11:51

I have compained via their contact form. I may phone up and ask to speak to their PR aswell. Or should I speak to another dept?

contact form

tethersend · 18/08/2011 11:52

Hang on a second, gaaagh- do you mean me? I'm not saying 'what's wrong with being a xyz?' I'm saying that the real problem is that the low status of these jobs is because they are done by women, and that is a massive problem which needs tackling on a much deeper level than giving girls different dressing up costumes. Otherwise it's like putting a plaster on a broken spine.

In the same way, to eschew everything pink and sparkly is to concentrate on the signifier instead of the signified- we should be asking ourselves why we associate 'girliness' with weakness and want to reject it. It is a dangerous message to be sending young girls that they should reject anything 'girly'.

dietcokenoice · 18/08/2011 11:54

YANBU.
i remember my mil flipping her lid when i bought my son a toy hoover and a little play kitchen for his birthday, and thought the poor kid was weird for asking for them! sadly, he is a big lazy teen who now has no interest in cleaning up or cooking, so she's probably quite happy now!

Ephiny · 18/08/2011 11:55

No one is saying girls must reject anything girly. Just that there's no need for costumes and aspirations to be categorised so strictly by gender - why not just let children like what they like?

No of course it doesn't solve the entire problem, but who claimed it did? Does that make it not worth doing?

GeekCool · 18/08/2011 11:56

My issue is the boys one have businessman, astronaut, policeman, all seen as authority figures or held up with a high regard.

EuphemiaMcGonagall · 18/08/2011 11:59

I think the "low status because it's done by women" angle is the right one.

Surely a big issue is encouraging boys to think more widely about suitable career choices? For example, no-one should scoff at a boy if he says he wants to be a nurse, a primary teacher, a nursery officer or SAHD.

I think we've come a long way in opening girls' minds to their choices, but society has a long way to go with boys'. I can just see my Daily Fail-reading MIL's face if one of her teenage grandsons said they wanted to be a nurse or a hairdresser. Confused

gaaagh · 18/08/2011 12:00

No - actually tethersend I think you've raised some valid points about assigning value to women's work (traditionally). You've added more interesting points to the discussion than the knee jerk reactors who've said "aaah what's wrong with being a nurse" (or various equivalents), who've failed to really grasp the problem is slightly more complex than that.

I'm surprised no one's picked up on the aspect you've raised further, tbh. I'm currently at home waiting on an important phonecall (working from home, but can't get anything done until i get the go ahead for something - very productive use of time this morning Hmm) so will perhaps butt in on that note myself if I have time shortly.

SiamoFottuti · 18/08/2011 12:00

saying "the real problem is" is a cop out to the issue you are talking about. Sure, tackle the root problem, but wtf are you going to do about that right now this minute? and why is that a good enough reason to ignore this particular branch of the entire problem.

squeakytoy · 18/08/2011 12:02

I honestly do not see the issues that some people see with these costumes.

From the perspective of the young child, the people who they regularly see in their daily lives, who wear uniforms, are the people who they want to pretend to be. Children that age have very little knowledge of scientists, lawyers, stockbrokers, etc.. they do however see crossing patrol people (probably not allowed to say lollipop man or lady now!), waiting staff in cafes and restaurants, nurses and doctors, firemen and policemen.. a child that age has no concept of wages, they just want to play... they want to pretend.. they want to have fun.

SiamoFottuti · 18/08/2011 12:03

and young children learn who they are, what they can be, and their place in the world through play. If you think this stuff doesn't matter, you are wrong.

Laquitar · 18/08/2011 12:03

tethersend, i agree. This is what happened with hairdressing, when it was mostly a woman's job it was looked down. Since men entered the field it has become more respectful job, a 'creative' and not so bad paid profession.

GeekCool · 18/08/2011 12:03

squeakytoy are there no business women? No female police or firefighters?
Children don't categorise, adults do, so it's adult projecting their own view of society on to children. Which is what the dressing up does.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 18/08/2011 12:04

I agree with tethers.

I think that the gender-stereotyping at later stages is quite explicitly linked to the status of these jobs. My mate who is training to be a doctor now says it is not uncommon for women to say they were given career advice along teh lines of 'no, you don't want to be a doctor, you want to be a nurse so when the babies come you can take time off'. Seriously. And that simultaneously implies that all women want babies, and that nursing is somehow not a career (as fucking if!). The gender-stereotyping doesn't even reflect the reality of the job.

GeekCool · 18/08/2011 12:05

Laquitar I would say similar about cooking and chefs.

tethersend · 18/08/2011 12:06

"No one is saying girls must reject anything girly." Not overtly, Ephiny- but look at all the 'pink stinks' campaigns and exasperation with pink and princessy stuff for girls.

I just think that to be angry with the colour pink is to spectacularly miss the point.

Pink has come to signify 'girliness' and 'girliness' has come to signify weakness. It is the signified which needs challenging, not the signifier, the colour itself.

Surely the issue is about semiotics; we also need to examine what pretty dresses/nurses outfits etc have come to signify, rather than avoiding them per se.

Think very carefully about what message you are giving by denigrating every sign of 'girliness' (as a young child sees it)- it could inadvertently communicate the message that girls and women are flippant empty and worthless unless they eschew all things pink and sparkly (and choose 'male' objects/colours). Which is not the message I want to give my DD. And I fucking hate pink princess dresses. We are at risk of teaching our daughters that it's only traditionally male toys/roles which have any value.

How feminist are we to blithely assume that any sign of 'girlyness' is a failure? Since having my DD I have really had to challenge my own views about why I see 'girlyness' as flippant, unworthy and insubstantial and why I was trying to stamp out any sign of my 'girlyness', as if being like a girl is something to be ashamed of.

Princess dresses, pink, nurses uniforms, nail varnish and the like don't do the damage- it's the value we place on them as a society that does.

The issue needs tackling, but a ban on 'girly' toys and costumes isn't challenging the prejudices around us, it is reinforcing them. I appreciate that not everyone is saying this, but a few are. A genderless dressing up set with all the costumes in would be a start, but it would not be enough, IMO.