To think that this is the worst example of gender bollocks I've found?

[nenevomito]

So the Studio Christmas book arrived on my doorstep yesterday. I once ordered some personalised pencils and have forever more been on their radar.

I have had to put it away as I am so fucking angry that they are selling shite like this.
I want to be Girls dress up set

A horse rider, a maid, a nurse a ballerina or a beautician.

A Maid???? Yeah set the bar high on aspiration there you knobbers.

So what about the boys set? Is it as pathetic?

I want to be boys dress up

A businessman, a pilot, an astronaut, a postman and a policeman.

How the hell have we got to 2011 where this shit is still acceptable. I am not saying that girls shouldn't want to be those things, but why the hell isn't the girls "I want to be dress up set" - Doctor, business woman, pilot, astronaut?

Maid???? You are SHITTING me Studio!

Then I made the mistake of searching for girls roleplay and discovered they carried on with the theme. Sure. Why not. Let me set aspiration and expectation in my daughter by dressing her as a maid and giving her the laundry set complete with pink fucking whirlygig washing line. for the Girls roleplay

I don't often rant on here but .

I don't disagree, but as I said, addressing the root problem doesn't mean ignoring the resulting problems that stem from it. You can't do much about that issue right now, but you can do something about this. Do both.

I am not surprised to be insulted for having my own opinion on this thread,

Society (whatever that means in its real sense) is pushing my daughter towards a low role now is it?

She can happily dress up as ballerina whilst proclaiming she either wants to be a lion keeper or a doctor.

I will encourage my dd to be whatever she wants to be- we aren't mindless sheep.

The fact she has been coming to all my antenatal appointments as seen all the doctors are female is clear proof to her that doctors are females too. Happily the lead female consultant walks around in dresses and heels- alas one can be feminine and have a brain.

It takes more than a tabard to influence my dd!

I actually have more respect for her than to believe a mere costume will set her on a path of doom towards these 'lowly' jobs.

oh yawn, its not an insult, its an observation, and its called debate. If everyone jsut had an opinion and everyone else said jolly good well done, what the fuck would be the point of discussing anything at all?

And yes, still coming across as naive. Haven't you heard of social conditioning? Unless your child is in isolation, they are being conditioned by everything.

But to steer our daughters away from low status professions (and towards higher ones) in this way is to reinforce the disparity between them IYSWIM- it accepts the basic premise that there is something inherent in nursing (for example) which is of little value to society.

Well intentioned proclamations of 'you're worth more than that' to our daughters actually reinforce the low status those roles have.

Well your observations are wrong. I have worked with children for over a decade and I can assure you a love for a sparkly dress does not have any bearing on ambition.

Children are influenced by things- but real life and parenting has far more effect than a dress.

"Well intentioned proclamations of 'you're worth more than that' to our daughters actually reinforce the low status those roles have."

Exactly- and pushing your chidren towards something they don't want to be or pushing them beyond their capabilties in hugely damaging. If you child wants to be a 'low-status' profession allowing them to be true to themselves is crucial.

Your observations are not enough to tell me that mine (which are based on quality large scale research, not just personal experience, which is ambiguous and biased), and you aren't qualified to pronounce such a conclusion.

Naive is exactly right. Look around you, look at the expectations of women to be thin, to be pretty, to dress right and look right and behave properly like women are expected too, OF COURSE the dressing of girls in sparkly pink crap and giving them Barbies influences this. It is asinine in the extreme to suggest otherwise!

and its not about individuals or pushing them or deciding on the worth of various professions, the issue is predicating these roles solely on gender grounds.

coco, I don't think anyone is saying you can't be feminine and ambitious. But why should being feminine be constructed the way it is? Why is it linked to wearing a nurse uniform?

It's nothing to do with pushing children beyond their capacities IMO - being a nurse is challenging; it's not the 'easy' version of being a doctor!

Yes. Allowing them to be true to themselves. So why should the outfits be labelled as 'girls' and 'boys'? Can't boys be horseriders? How many people have seen little boys steered away from toys because 'those are for girls'? Why should a toy kitchen be pink? Why assign it a gender label? Can't it be for children? And why is pink 'for girls'? Lots of small boys like pink, until they're taught not to

As children did you not dress-up in gender specific costumes?

I say let the kids be whatever they like
when they want to dress up. My 2 girls
were nurses butterfly's green giants,ladybirds.
etc: both grew up ok one is a doctor
the other a deputy editor of a large magazine.

No, I didn't. My mother was a proper feminist.

Personally, not much coco - two brothers, so mum got gender-neutral stuff that could be handed down.

I don't see what anecdotes about what we did as kids would achieve thought - it's not as if we don't know already that role-play/restricted social models have an effect, and a bad one.

My point is it says all it needs too- the female doctors and lawyers of today played as princess or as fairy at some point.

All's well that end's well.

"and its not about individuals or pushing them or deciding on the worth of various professions, the issue is predicating these roles solely on gender grounds."

I can see your point, Siamo (and I think my argument is getting muddled with Coco's)- I agree that this is most certainly not about individuals and that gender stereotyping is clearly rife. However, my concern centres around the way we react to this gender stereotyping, as I believe that we are inadvertently reinforcing it. Instead of questioning why the male roles have a higher status, we are simply pushing girls towards them, giving them the same disdain for traditionally female roles as society has, thereby continuing the status quo.

That doesn't feel like progress to me.

*continuing = maintaining

I think it would be ok if they were not gendered. I guess they are making it so because they think that's what customers want though. The only way to change these things is for people to complain and vote with their feet.

I must admit though some of my favourite toys when I was little were an ironing board and iron, a mini washing machine you could 'really' wash dolls clothes in (i.e. you could put in water and powder and turn it with a handle at the back) a sweeping brush and a toy hoover. I became a lawyer, not a maid though due to some good parenting giving me more choices, and of course being lucky to be intelligent enough to have choices.

Not that there is anything wrong with being a maid or cleaner or doing these jobs at home though. It's assuming they should only be done by one gender that is wrong. I quite like the way people have reclaimed some 'traditional' 'female' skills such as cooking, household management, baking and sewing recently therefore raising their status and importance. Some of the early feminists seemed to think that doing any of these tasks or being good at or enjoying them was selling out the sisterhood.

No I totally agree. I think we are making the same point, just looking at different manifestations of the same issue. Its all part of the one big thing, but whatever way you look at it these dress up jobbies are pathetic.

It is certainly not alls well that ends well. How many women are in the top jobs? How many women are the top consultants and head of law firms, and how many men are making the tea and cleaning the loos? Just because a few women dressed up as princesses and still got the good jobs doesn't mean its ok to push the princess ideal onto young girls.

'My point is it says all it needs too- the female doctors and lawyers of today played as princess or as fairy at some point.

All's well that end's well.'

What do you mean 'well'? That it's ok nurses are paid badly and considered low-status, just because some girls become doctors instead?

Coco, that is really bad logic. It is full of holes; surely you can see that? Just because some women who dress up as princesses still go on to become lawyers, therefore everything is fine and it's all a non-issue?

I am actually keen to know your solutions to some of society's other big problems. Racism? Well, some black children who experienced racial prejudice thirty years ago have still grown up to become successful. So all's well that ends well, hey?

Thats not want I meant at all! I meant girls dressed up and managed to go onto high status jobs. A costume had no effect..

Can I ask where you keep getting the idea that nursing is low- status from? I haven't come across this attitude before from anyone. Im finding it a little offensive to be honest.

Your equating racisim with sparkly dresses... er, Im the one with the bad logic!

Oh dear.

Don't be disingenuous, Coco; it is well known that nurses and most other caring professions do not have the high status in economic and social terms that they should, given the challenging and essential nature of their role.

That's not slagging off nurses, it's pointing out that they deserve to be valued more highly.

Coco I was making a sarcastic point about the holes in your argument, honey. Not seriously equating racism with sparkly dresses.