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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to think that a mum of two should not be jailed for

320 replies

Mitmoo · 13/08/2011 11:37

taking a pair of shorts that her friend stole in the riots.

She's got six months.

A young man who took £3.50 worth of water from a ransacked shop got six months.

I want justice, I want those who terrified my family even though we were fortunate enough to only view it through the television screen to be punished but I want some kind of proportionality.

Do we remove mum's from their children for six months because she took a pair of shorts from a friend who had been in the riots?

It was wrong of course, she should have shopped the "friend" but six months????

menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455638_mum-jailed-for-six-months-for-wearing-pair-of-looted-shorts-

OP posts:

twolips · 13/08/2011 12:15

I'll eat my hat if its a first offense. The article would have been full of "never been in trouble before" stuff otherwise.

worraliberty · 13/08/2011 12:16

She didn't 'handle' one pair of shorts. She allowed the looter to bring the stolen goods to her home and keep them there.

If people stop buying from looters and storing stolen goods for them, eventually they'll have to stop looting.

The courts can't win. People call for the full force of the law to be used against criminals...and when it is, they say it's too harsh.

ll31 · 13/08/2011 12:17

I dont know you'd have same people complaining about whose going to mind her kids while she's cleaning... If you have kids you're responsible for them and the actions that you take which affect your kids are also your responsibiilty. I dont have any issue with sentence - she may not have foreseen these consequences when she broke law but she will next time. Community service is a joke in terms of punishment for breaking the law

Original poster

Mitmoo · 13/08/2011 12:20

PerryCombover That would be ILT at the top of that list then.

OP posts:

troisgarcons · 13/08/2011 12:20

Community service has never properly been enforced before. It has been seen as a soft option. I'm all for that ever-so-slightly-barkin-mad Sherriff in the USA who does dress his inmates in barbie pink boiler suits and makes them break rocks at the edge of the highway - lets face it, you just cannot be a 'hard' bloke in barbie pink can you!!!!

A bit of public humilitation goes a long way. No one ever wants to lose face - however if you are that way inclined, then prison just toughens up your image.

PerryCombover · 13/08/2011 12:22

The sentence is totally out of proportion for the crime. A custodial sentence for having a single item of stolen property. Nonsense

Also where have we gotten this idea that the courts have decided to come down heavily on these offenders. Our justice system is supposed to be fair in all situations.
Women receive more custodial sentences compared to men for non violent crimes

belledechocchipcookie · 13/08/2011 12:23

They should stick them in stocks so people can throw their rotten veg at them. Why was this abandoned??

scurryfunge · 13/08/2011 12:24

It isn't disproportionate at all when you look at the high level of seriousness for the original offence.

troisgarcons · 13/08/2011 12:24

I'd also wager that most of these people are accepting magistrates court by pleading guilty instead of going to crown court on a non-guilty plea. They will be poorly represented by the duty solicitor. Crown court would throw out most of these cases.

Original poster

Mitmoo · 13/08/2011 12:25

TWOLIPs I would imagine (though don't know) that this is the first time anyone has ever been jailed for six months for handling one pair of stolen shorts. It was a risk that she had no idea she was taking. The sames goes for the theft of the £3.50 water bottle man.

It seems that we will end up with one set of sentences for committing a crime during a riot than if you commit the same crime while not in the circumstances of a riot. This woman could not have foreseen that so not a choice.

She should be punished of course but not with six months.

OP posts:

ll31 · 13/08/2011 12:25

but sentencing always appears disproportionate because you dont have mandatory sentences - judges have discretion so that they can take mitigating factors into account presumably.

I don't know why you're so upset about disproportionate sentencing this week - it was the same last wk, last yr etc - its a fact of life - plus you don't have all the facts - maybe if you did maybe it wouldn't appear disproportionate.

I don't think her sentence is too harsh - if she was storing and handling stole goods = her children her responsibility. She knew she had children yet she went ahead and did this - its down to her not disproportionate sentencing. Whats happened her this week is that just for once having kids is not being treated as an automatic walk free card. Given the cirucmstances we know about ie rioting I think thats right.

MillyR · 13/08/2011 12:25

I think it is wrong. It should be clear in sentencing that people who commit violent crimes and people who directly endanger the lives of others should get custodial sentences.

It cannot be right that people who mug somebody do not always go to prison and this woman does.

I cannot be right that people who break the speed limit in residential areas and could kill a child do not go to prison and this woman does.

MillyR · 13/08/2011 12:26

It not I!

Birdsgottafly · 13/08/2011 12:29

It was because the goods were being stored in the house that they lived in, as well as the clamp down. If people were unwilling to store stolen goods or say drugs then the 'industry' would end, in the eyes of the law.

menmedia.co.uk/.../1455638_mum-jailed-for-six-months-for-wearing-pair-of-looted-shorts-

Georgimama · 13/08/2011 12:29

If a "mum of two" doesn't want her children to be deprived of her for three/six months perhaps she shouldn't commit criminal offences which attract custodial sentences.

Whether or not other people get lesser sentences for apparently more serious crimes is neither here nor there. Perhaps this is the beginning of more realistic and appropriate sentencing which will actually act as a punishment/deterrent. If so good. And I am quite happy to pay tax to build more prisons if so.

GypsyMoth · 13/08/2011 12:29

She would have seen the footage at some point, seen on tv the rioting etc

Still chose to be involved didn't she!

ll31 · 13/08/2011 12:29

"It (sentence) was a risk that she had no idea she was taking" - so what? Are you saying she'd no idea taking and holding stolen goods was against the law - maybe she should have checked up on the possib le results of what she was doing before she decided to do it...

If she hadn't committed a crime she wouldn't be facing prison sentence. Thats it. Or should we say, "ok you broke the law but you'd no idea that longer sentences could be imposed, you poor dear go home and have a cup of tea"... give me a break

TartyMcFarty · 13/08/2011 12:30

Admittedly I haven't read the whole thread, but I fear that imprisoning mums for indirect involvement and kicking families out of their council homes is immoral if we fail to really address the social and ethical factors leading to the riots.

I'm not making excuses for anyone and believe the looters should be justly punished, but this smacks of a witch hunt.

troisgarcons · 13/08/2011 12:31

The total irony in this whole sorry mess - MPS scamming and fraudlently doing their expenses for years; the two top brass in the Met had to resign 2 weeks ago over accepting gifts ..... don't see them languishing in prison. Well only 3 MPS went to prison over that scandal. Hardly made a reassuring point to the public.

SoupDragon · 13/08/2011 12:31

This: WorzselMummage
Poor fucking diddums.

[couldn't give a fuck emoticon]

evenlessnarkypuffin · 13/08/2011 12:33

It's a very long sentence for a pair of shorts, and her children will suffer. I agree that the person who attacked the policeman should have a longer sentence. I'm guessing that she has a previous record which is why she's been given 6 months.

It's not really in proportion to receiving a pair of stolen shorts, but the crime was actually much bigger. Whether she was standing on the pavement watching her friend steal them or took them from her later, they were not just the fruit of an ordinary theft. Think about the damage, chaos, fear etc caused by looters. The cost of policing them. The people whose businesses were destroyed, the hours of work their employees will lose, the hours lost by people who had to leave work early in fear of rioters/looters. The damage to the economy from early closing and shoppers afraid to go out. The damage to the UK's reputation, the lost tourism revenue, the people who posted on here fraught for the welfare of their relatives. The people whose homes have been destroyed and who have lost everything. The people who died.

When you act as a mob you own part of the responsibility for their actions, and someone knowingly taking looted goods takes part of that responsibility. We have policing by consent. We don't have armed police as standard like the US. We don't have a low ratio of police to population. If enough people start to riot it can't be easily stopped by force as we've seen. There has to be an acknowledgement that this something above and beyond theft or breach of the peace.

MillyR · 13/08/2011 12:34

Georgimama, yes that is true - if this is actually the start of the government taking crime seriously and all people who endanger the lives of others are going to get custodial sentences, then her sentence would be in proportion with future sentences, not past one.

I'll be very happy if everyone who breaks the speed limit is now sent to prison.

SoupDragon · 13/08/2011 12:37

Actually, I do agree that it seems a harsh sentence for one pair of shorts but I also think we have been pussyfooting around crime for far too long.

mayorquimby · 13/08/2011 12:39

Theft, handling stolen goods and an accessory after the crime are all arguable charges.
No sympathy.

GypsyMoth · 13/08/2011 12:40

The sentence would be the same....shorts or a flatscreen......by taking them, buying them etc off her 'friend' then it's creating a supply and demand culture, and encouraging.

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