To ask if there is actually a job for every unemployed person on Income Support/ JSA?

[CardyMow]

Because I don't think there is, and surely if there isn't a job for everyone, then we need to ensure that everyone can eat, and live a decent life, even if they CAN'T get a job. I'm sure if you looked at the amount of jobs in Britain, and compared it to the total population of Britain, there would be a disparity between the two figures.

And I personally KNOW that there isn't enough unskilled jobs around now, for the people that CAN'T get any further qualifications.

Maypole - I am living on benefits at the moment. I have two children, and will have no more because DP and I do not wish to have more. I am not looking for work right now because there is no point in it due to my medical condition, although ATOS declared I had a "limited capacity for work" which means I should be looking I guess. Still, my health has detiriorated a lot since that assessment, I just can't face the stress of telling people I'm more ill than I was.

Believe me, not everyone on benefits is there as a lifestyle choice. BUt hey, you carry on reading about exceptional circumstances and judging millions of people as though they all act as one homogenous group.

After all, hey, you're a taxpayer? I saw that one woman taking part in those riots said she was "taking her taxes back", I bet that means you were rioting too!

FACT: More people unemployed than jobs available.

Approx 2 million unemployed
Approx 1/2 million jobs available

Channel 4 online.

Tott, I hope you're not having sex at every turn! You should be covering yourself in coal ash and wearing a sack cloth. :o

lachesis, ooh, yes, I know, I should feel more guilty about being disabled! Aren't I a picture of fecklessness!

Well, you know, unless you have no arms and legs, sitting in a wheelchair, unable to speak from locked-in syndrome as well, all disabled people are just pisstakers trying it on.

there's a big mismatch between people's skills and the jobs available, isnt there?

DH has real difficulty recruiting competent, qualified staff. He now gives them all a test before interviewing, and a further test at the interview, and sadly the vast majority of people are ruled out by the tests. Meanwhile I was chatting to a very capable, qualified woman who'd lost confidence after returnin to work. Turned out that she'd thought about applying for a job with DH but hadn't had the confidence, and had applied for a minimum wage job instead, for which there were over 100 applicants. so DH was struggling to hire for a well paid position while 100s of people went for what seemed like a low skilled job.

Mainly because its been easier for people to go to uni and study random subjects that then make them 'post-grads' IMO there are way too many 'post grads wandering around with either subjects that are so specialized that there are only a handful of jobs that they use them for or are so broad that no-one really knows what the degree is in.

I volunteer with a charity that helps people work through their financial problems and teaches them to budget (cos they dont bother with actual life skills as part of the curriculum) If I had a quid for everyone that said, 'well Ive got a degree so Im not going to get a job stacking bloody shelves' Id be a millionaire, unfortunately the charity's ethos is we're not allowed to charge them

Bus pass - all well and good in the holidays, but I have to travel my dc to school by bus. Which means paying for 2 buses before 9.30am.

Can't do care work, as my epilepsy is not (and according to my Neuro, never will be) fully controlled. Don't get DLA so can't claim disabiltiy element of WTC. Sucks eggs. All I want is a 20-25 hr/wk shop job that I can get childcare for.

Online shopping - got fed up when they kept substituting my shopping for random things - pack of dates when you ask for grapes, turkey instead of chicken (WTF?! why not a bigger/smaller pack of chicken!). And the best one ever - Tena lady instead of maternity pads. So easier to go myself, and during term time, I've spent the bus fare getting the dc to school anyway.

And I'm NOT too lazy to stack shelves - in fact one of my previous jobs was doing just that. I was doing 6x 10hr night shifts a week, while having severe epileptic seizures 2-3 times a week, while looking after my (then) 3 dc during the day and surviving on 3 hrs sleep a day as my DP (at the time) was working during the day. My dc were then aged only 6.5yo, 2.4yo and 11 months old, when I started. I ended up getting the sack due to having to go home halfway through a shift once too often when I'd had a seizure on the shop floor. If that's lazy, then I'd like to fucking see what HARD work is like, cheers.

Muddlin - Unfortunately, I'm in the SE. Which is why everything is costing me a fucking fortune, but am tied to my town by a family law court order, so am not allowed to leave here for another 9 years. (Till DS1 is 18yo).

My shopping for £130 - that includes all cleaning stuff, nappies, bathroom products, and buying PROPER food - i.e. not turkey twizzlers or chicken nuggets, I make sure all my dc have their 5 portions of fruit and veg each day, and that is what is costing me the money.

I'm just crossing my fingers that if I get an interview at Waitrose (they have ONE job going), that they don't ask me to explain why I have had 3 years out of work. "Oh, sorry, I was busy having seizures for the first year, they settled down a bit, then I caught swine flu and ended up with pneumonia, then I had a baby" PROBABLY won't go down too well....

TottWriter - I hope the DRs can find a way to control your epilepsy soon. Apologies if you know this already - but you are entitled to a yearly appt with a neurologist, also many hospitals now have Epilepsy Nurse Specialists.

It's true that if you have disabilities that aren't immediately visible (eg. MH problems, epilepsy, deafness, chronic pain) then people in general aren't as understanding or sympathetic as they could be.

I never declared my epilepsy on job applications. Then when I went to university at 23 to do staff nurse training I had to declare it to the university & to the Occupational Health dept of the hospital I trained at. Luckily the epilepsy was well controlled by medication so I was accepted onto the university course & then got a job as a staff nurse. Occupational Health said I had no obligation to tell my managers. I did occasionally have small seizures both in & out of work despite the meds but didn't tell my managers. This March circumstances meant I started having small seizures daily - I'm now off sick & having medications changed, also having MH problems. Am desperate to get back to work! Luckily the managers have been great but they said I should have been honest sooner. They do understand that I was scared to be honest with them because some people are so prejudiced; even other nurses.

It is SO scary when disabilities that you have no control over can mean the difference between having the job you love or losing it; having a nice home or being homeless; & so much more.
WHEN (not IF) I get back to work I feel that my experiences will help me to understand patients better in a lot of ways - I also feel very strongly that people with non-visible disabilities should be understood better by the benefits system.

Also agree with Loudlass - your location does affect your bills so much. Rent & house prices where I live are very high but my family & friends are here - family ties are the same reason lots of jobless people don't move as well.
Loudlass - do you mind if I ask if you were on medication when you conceived? Don't answer if that's too private. I would like to TTC within the next couple of years (had hoped it would be sooner) but am scared re: the meds. I know it sounds stupid considering I'm a nurse but I buried my head in the sand re: the epilepsy. Until 2 yrs ago I had no idea that there were different epilepsy syndromes, or that there can be 40 different types of seizure. I didn't understand why I was so slow, forgetful, or could get confused or agitated suddenly. I didn't realise exactly how badly the meds I'm on can affect you. I wish I had known all this because I could have explained to the colleagues who wrote me off as 'lazy' or 'dreamy', 'dizzy blonde' etc. I also didn't know I was having seizures in my sleep (I live alone). Thanks to my new consultant I know all this now.
The type of epilepsy you have sounds difficult to cope with let alone having 3 DC - so I really do wish you well & hope life gets easier at some point.

Loudlass does your (ex)DH contribute anything to you and DCs ?

Kallista - was / am on Gabapentin. I wouldn't advise TTC if you are takign epilim (sodium valproate) as that can be tetarogenic (harmful for the fetus). However - I wasn't actively TTC when I had DS3, in fact I was trying NOT to, but gabapentin interferes with the effectiveness of ALL types of hormonal contraception, I can't have a coil (have tried in past), and the condom split. . MAP also not 100% effective when faced with my meds. RE: the different types of seizures - I have tonic szs (not the typical tonic-clonic szs), myoclonic szs ,nocturnal szs and partial szs.

I got the best info on effects of seizure meds by googling Americam research and looking at the FDA (food and drugs agency in America), as they have done MUCH MUCH more research on this in America, sadly in the UK hardly any Neuro's give two hoots about it, which is why, until 2 years ago, there wasn't even a warning on the patient information leaflet of Epilim (sodium valproate) stating that it could cause Sodium Valproate Syndrome in a baby if taken by the Mother during pregnancy.

There was an attempt to take the manufacturers to court by some Mums with epilepsy who had a) not been told this by their Neuro's, and b) who had read the PIL and as it wasn't on there, knew no better, though the manufacvturers did. Didn't work, it got wriggled out of on a technicality, but that's a whole other, googlable subject.

abbscrosswoman - DD's father has JUST this week decided, after 13.5yrs, that he is going to pay some maintenance. The CSA have been sooo useless finding him (I am now living 600 miles away from where I fell pg, due to being kicked out of my Granny's), that I bloody did it myself. But up till this week, nada.

DS1's dad (Ex-H) - not a penny, legally, as CSA have given a NIL assessment. Cos he's a lazy cheating scumbag that WONT work. OK, He's a good dad and has DS1 45% of the time, but no money

DS2 & DS3's dad (Ex-P) - pays £50-ish per week as per the CSA calculator. He doesn't earn much, and the amount I get will probably drop soon, as his wage is about to go from £16.8K pa to £14.4K pa as his job has been taken back over by NHS and they're stopping all his overtime and unsociable hours. 20% of £14.4 is even less than 20% of £16.8.

Kallista - Yeah, I'm supposed to see a neurologist every year, but mine has been off sick for the last year and a half, so I've had four letters (at six-monthly intervals) postponing my appointment. I also managed to drop off the list to see the epilepsy nurse, and had my appointment booked nicely in time for her to go sick as well. (She's the only one covering this part of the county.)

As for not declaring the epilepsy - I know I don't have to, but at the moment I'm having one, sometimes two seizures a day, and auras in between. (Probably on account of having no access to the right care ) I don't think I could not declare it when it's pretty much a certainty I'd have seizures at work.

Also, I was on medication when I conceived both my DC. I take Keppra (Levetiracetam) and they were both fine. There are risks associated with that drug, but the evidence so far seems to point towards minor physical defects which can be corrected, like webbed toes or club feet. Not good, but not horrendous either. And the probabilites are still small. I was able to breastfeed too. The consensus on that seems to be that if you take the drug while pregnant the baby has been exposed anyway, and, at least for drugs like Keppra, they are easily passed out via the kidneys.

There's ongoing research in NI that most Epilepsy nurses will point you towards: The UK Epilepsy and Pregnancy Register I found that quite helpful.

Probably not. Certainly not everyone on benefits is employable either for health reasons or simple lack if basic skills. If you are functionally illiterate these days there are not the basic factory type repetitive jobs etc.

Loudlass - yep found a good US epilepsy website. I have been having complex partial & petit mal seizures with confusion afterwards, myoclonus, nocturnal seizures & now deja vu (this type is quite disconcerting I have to say). I've always had strong Photosensitivity (so flickering / flashing light & strong patterns are a big problem); also epilepsy symptoms are worse during periods, when hungry / tired / anxious, & if I get drunk or don't take meds on time. The epilepsy symptoms were never 100% controlled but got very bad in march due to a new anti-depressant I take (& really need) which lowers the seizure threshold. That is why I went off sick. Am on epilim - now on increasing doses of keppra too, while reducing the epilim a bit. But can't come off epilim totally as I also need it for a mood stabiliser. The epilim side effects are bad though.

Keppra seems good so far - one of my other work friends is coming off epilim & trying keppra as she is ttc with her hubby. The side effects of keppra take at least a fortnight to work through with each dose increase which is a PITA.

Re: contraception failure - at least you have a cute (if expensive) DS3 to make up for it... :)

That's my point - where are all the jobs for low-skilled people? Not everyone can have the IQ of Einstein, not everyone is capable of being functionally literate, regardless of what people would like to believe. Maybe if there was enough early intervention in Primary schools for dc with problems. My DD has GDD amongst other things, and got barely any help from school with her sn at primary, I tried my best, but do not have any qualifications in teaching, surprisingly. It wasn't until my DD got to 8yo that she was reading at a reception level. She has greatly improved since being at Secondary, and is now 'only' 2.5yrs behind her age with reading - that is to say at 13.5yo, she has the reading age of an 11yo. She is not going to achieve A-C grades at GCSE level in just a few years, is she? Considering she is starting one of her GCSE's in Sept,

How will DD find a job? Now if her problems had been addressed by the education system much earlier, she may have totally caught up by now, and had a chance of at least getting C grades with some hard work. Now, even WITH hard work, she'll be lucky to scrape D's. I just hope she can get into college to do the catering course she wants to do. Haven't looked yet as I'm scared that it's going to be impossible for her to meet the course requirements, and therefore be almost unemployable.

Keppra is my last resort now if Gabapentin doesn't hold them at bay. I haven't had a tonic seizure since I fell pg (Ironic, eh), but I'm still bf, and if they come back when my hormone levels drop after I stop bf, then Keppra it is.

Lamactil (Lamotrigine) didn't give me any control whatsoever, even at enormous doses, Epilim (sodium valproate) badly affected my liver (got liver damage from it, was reversible but only because I caught it quickly), and topamax (Topirimate) I was given when I shouldn't have been - it CAN have the side effect of causing bipolar symptoms especially when there has been a family history of bipolar, my DF committed suicide due to bipolar, so I should never have been given it as a med, add-on or otherwise. It also permanently damaged my peripheral vision, bit shitty really.

But these are the things that happen when your PCT doesn't HAVE a Neurologist (struck off 7 years ago, just after my diagnosis), refuses to pay to send you out of PCT area more than once a year, even if your epilepsy worsens or you want advice on TTC, and there hasn't been an Epilepsy Nurse for 8 years either....You just have to rely on your GP's knowledge of epilepsy and hope for the best! Oh, and educate yourself.

I'm crossing my fingers madly that my tonic szs don't come back after 9 months without them, I can cope with the myo's, just rest until the twitchy thumb / eyelid / arm passes, I can cope with the nocturnal szs, I just feel a bit 'hungover' in the morning - good trick when you don't bleeding drink!, and I can cope with the partial szs, doing stuff I don't know I'm doing etc, it's the fucking tonic szs I hate. But I am prepared for the fact that they could come back.

Loudlass, if I were in your position, I wouldn't beat myself up about not being able to find a job at this particular point in time. You have lots of childcare issues, your own health issues, and are applying in the middle of a recession. YOu have done all you can. I would say to yourself that you will look again in a year or two and know that at some point, there will be more jobs and things will be easier for you personally. Sometimes, despite best intentions, things don't work out for us at a particular time.

Having said that, in general (and not addressed at you), there are no jobs is because we are in the middle of a recession. But, before that, there were plenty of jobs. At that point, many many Eastern Europeans came here to do those jobs. I think something like 2.5 million jobs were created and most did go to non-UK citizens. Now many EE's are still here, still doing the jobs no-one else wanted to do five years ago, and doing very nicely. Some have realised the work is drying up and have gone back to their own countries. Many UK citizens were very fussy, and only wanted work paid at a higher rate, or hours to suit, or actually preferred being on benefits and having lots of free time (I know several people who made this choice). Now they have lost out, they are pretty unemployable and they are competing with new UK graduates who have better qualifications if nothing else.

I am not condemnatory of Eastern European people coming here whatsoever, I am lucky enough to meet someone who came here (with high level skills) and get married. What strikes me now is that none of his friends here are unemployed. They all got qualifications (e.g. as an accountant), or worked in small business, or set up themselves as importers and so on. They know what it is like to have no welfare state, no choice about working, so they work as a matter of course, very hard. And, they are also prepared to live in poor conditions, several families to a house, or working in temporary jobs, or working away from family. They are also prepared to get up and move wherever the work is, Canada, US, France, UK, Germany. So, saying they get a better wage here is only part of the story, they often pay a very high price for that slightly better pay, a price that UK people, including myself, probably wouldn't be prepared to pay.

Sadly there are not enough general neurologists in the country, let alone those who specialise in epilepsy. I'm lucky that my nearby hospital has 2 neurologists & 2 epilepsy nurses (the nurses are new - but may be withdrawn again with funding cuts). I think all Trusts should have similar cover. Also the problem with GPs is that they know the basics but epilepsy is very specialist like all neuro conditions. Also be aware that the most expensive drugs are tried last. That's why you aren't on Keppra yet :( .

Hardgoing - I agree re: immigrants as I know quite a few. They came here when there were lots of min wage unskilled jobs available eg. care work, cleaning, waitressing etc that they were very overqualified for, yet they could earn so much more here than at home. They lived in crowded conditions initially & sent money 'back home' to pay for their families' health care & other essentials.

Many only considered the move temporary but got married & settled here. One friend left school in portugal at 11 with no english; she started working as a cleaner in the UK aged 20, then learnt to speak & write english. She became a care worker & now she has completed an NVQ3 in healthcare (using written english) which is an amazing achievement. She bought a house with her husband (who is turkish & manages a shop - she met him at 21 & he is the reason she stayed here.).
Although there are many UK citizens struggling to find jobs it would be unfair to penalise the foreign workers who came here to do the menial jobs back when many british wouldn't do them. As for foreign professionals, I know several Filippino staff nurses who came here to work in elderly care when there were lots of vacancies. Over time they brought their partners, had children here, got mortgages & got UK passports. Now there are few graduate vacancies for UK newly qualified nurses - but the foreign nurses have just as much right to those jobs now as they were actually invited over when it suited the Trusts & they are extremely hard working.

My DP works in a large multi-national company. In his team alone they have 5 vacancies that they are struggling to fill at a well-paid middle management level. The company is fantastic to work for and the team had won professional awards. The only reason they struggle to recruit is that the company is based in Surrey rather than central London and people wanting to do that sort of work are able to pick and choose where they work. In the 8 years he has been working in that field (no specialist qualifications required) he has never been in a fully recruited team.

All state schools need to be equally good; & subjects such as maths & the sciences need to be made more appealing.
Careers advice should be given much sooner too - many MC teachers & politicians don't understand the backgrounds of their pupils.
Many of us from poorer WC families had no conception of university or what GCSEs we needed for professional careers. All our families thought study was a waste of time - my family expected me to 'get an office job,' get married & have babies asap.
Same with my best friend who is very good at maths.
She could have been an accountant (i've never met an unemployed or poor accountant!) but never got given any info or encouragement. Now she works & does evening classes which will get her a better job - but she's on a low wage atm.
The engineering factory where her DH works has to bring in engineers from abroad as there aren't many british ones! Yet many state schools never promoted eg. engineering - girls at my school were certainly not encouraged to take up traditional 'mens' jobs' eg electricians or plumbers.
So things do need to change.

I don't care. My husband's tax bill is ridiculous. There were loads of jobs and they were taken by incomers. I absolutely don't care whether there are enough jobs now or not.

I bloody hate Labour for what they did to this country. Crappified education, glorifed the welfare condition, decided all our money could be spent on people who've never lived here, some of them never will, never contributed, never will, downgraded the values of decent people so that the police would arrest the done-to rather than the doer to meet targets and not care about the morality of it all. I hate Labour for what they did and it's partly my bloody fault, I voted for em. Never, ever, ever, ever again.