My elderly neighbour told me the riots have set black people fifty years back

[sundayrose10]

Saw me coming back this evening so stopped me for a chat. Said black people have no chance now they have truly fucked up. (hmm yeah, cos we are allllllllllllllllllllllllll the same)

Is it unreasonable for me to think he could have had tact considering I am black myself

I might teach him a lesson and not buy his Mail on Sunday for him any more. He is normally a sane(ish) person.

oh dear what a stupid thing to say but if he reads the mail this is probably what he believes because it is something the mail would print i do not think it was malicious just stupid

he is old, no excuse for racism but a little ignorance maybe at times the vast majority of younger people do not feel this way they have grown up in a multi cultural society so do not have the them and us mentality

and as for young black men joining gangs well what are our expectations of young black men in our society, the are sadly very low. try being a young black man trying to succeed you are having to constantly prove to far too many that you are not the stereotype i am not surprised soem can't be arsed to fight that all the time

Apparently there have been incidents in Cambridge and Gloucester. My impression is that the race of the people involved just reflects the race of the 'youths' in the local area.

In 1995 the then Met Commissioner said that the majority of crime was committed by black people. Of course he got shot down for this but the statistics provided this conclusion.

People are commenting in what they see, either in the news or unfortunately outside their front door.

Aren't the areas of initial violence known to be primarily - can't think of the PC word - black areas with gangs? The riots seemed to be initially consisting of black people as a majority but since then every race/nationality has jumped in the bandwagon of destruction and you are likely to see rich white kids looting along side poor White people, with Sikhs, Indians, eastern Europeans next to them.

It seems that the majority of these people are aged 14 to early twenties. That is more the issue now than the race of people - why are kids involved?

Not read whole of the thread but do agree with one poster who said surely the demographics of the rioters are just the teens to early 20s of that local area and some of these areas are more heavily populated by blacks than whites and vice versa so that is who will be on the streets.

OP I would get him the Daily Mail on Sunday and when you deliver it, make some wry comment about how this will have set back the cause of men 50 years, just when Cameron was talking about getting men as fathers to step up to their responsibilities (or some such guff) and now this - it's as if men are never going to overcome their struggle to be seen as anything but violent thugs is it?

On the plus side I saw 3 articulate young black men interviewed on BBC breakfast this morning when they were doing vox pops to the camera amongst the people cleaning up so I hope the media are going to be responsible in the way they report this (eternal optimist)

It was (Sir) Paul Condon and he stated that the majority of "robbery suspects" were black. Though it was statistically accurate it appeared racist because he failed to point out that the majority of burglars, rapists, fraudsters etc were White.

I don't think it helps that the news are making a big deal about ethnicity as well. I was watching Sky news this morning and a (black) chap was being interviewed - I think he represented a charity called Genius (though do correct me if I'm wrong). I was getting ready at the time so only had half an eye on the report but he was basically saying that black youths can amount to so much more than the current riots and gang culture taking place in our cities. I suppose if people are willing to put themselves on television like that and air those kinds of views, those of us nowhere near the riots - I live in the north east - are being led to assume that the majority of those making trouble are black. It seems to be an assumption that the media are attempting to force onto those that can't look out of their windows and actually see what's going on.

I don't think see that this is about race. What I do see is young people from poor, inner-city areas that all seem to be part of this 'gangster' culture, which just happens to be seen more predominantly in young black people. But that doesn't make it all ABOUT black people. There have been all races involved, and on both sides of the fence. One of my Asian friends has been out at the front, defending his temple with his friends and community in Birmingham, but there have been Asian rioters too.

It seems this kind of culture is all about demanding respect through fear, emphasis on material goods as status symbols and a dislike for authority. I think that, on top of young black people being stopped much more than other races (and they are, whatever you think) and a lack of good role models is a recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that any of this justifies their actions AT ALL. People are responsible for themselves, only they can make the choice to react with violence and destruction.

scrolling past swathes of thread

I dont think he was being 'rascist', OP .... he was being sympathetic .... I had the same/similar convo with someone at work on how I'm having a heck of a job in trying to make my 16yo understand, after being mugged 3 times by black kids, that not all blacks are muggers. I don't seem to be unable to undo the damage they have done to him ~ he now 'hates' blacks. He's sterotyped 'them' because of the few experiences he has had with 'them'.

Good and bad in all races, creeds, colours. I know many more 'good' black kids who will be sterotyped because of the initial violence. Ditto white kids, asian kids .... good always out numbers the bad but sterotyping is very difficult to shift

There was a scuffle in town night before last, they were all white

I guess it's true that MN does represent a cross-section of society, racist's included

The majority of rioters may have been black (although it did not necessarily appear that way on news reports I saw depending on the area) but the majority of black people in this country were not involved in the rioting.

I think tanif makes a good point. I think elements of the press have made certain lazy assumptions about the demographic of the rioters and have trotted out the same commentaries and interviewees accordingly. Thus perpetuating initial assumptions that these riots have anything to do with race.

There's plenty of black people disgusted with the mindless idiots who have trashed their own communities ( they're on the news saying they're 'ashamed' to be associated with them ) - the vast majority of young black men work damn hard and are law abiding. The fact is, there's a certain sub-section within these communities who think they can do what they like and live by their own 'rules' - no amount of money, help, assistance, will alter this fact. The police, the government, and other authorities have to acknowledge this and get tougher with them. They've been allowed to do what they like for too long - and the people who end up suffering the most are the people living along side them - their own 'community'
I still don't know why the police just stood by and watched them for 3 days?
what must other countries think of us?

But why should black people be required to account for their shame when this has nothing to do with race.

IF the majority of crime is committed by young black males, then wouldn't it be prudent to look at why this group behaves in such a way?

If one is systematically marginalised and demonised, then perhaps opportunities to break the mould are less viable?

And whilst I or course accept that individuals are capable of making their own choices, surely if all around you are behaving in a certain way, then that behaviour becomes the norm; the hegemony?

If a minority consistently behaves outside of societies norms in an anti social manner, then the majority will consistently expect that behaviour, so the minority continue to display it. And so on.... Self fulfilling prophecies are easy to fall into and hard to escape from

It's sad but I do believe institutionalised racism is alive and well in the UK.

And before I am accused of being an apologist, I deplore the violence and attitude. Also, I agree that a huge amount of this is to do with poverty.

Vigglewiggle, because of attitudes that exist in the OP.

The vast majority of Black people are law-abiding, hard working. However, since many people decided that 'All Blacks are...' when things like this happen, we feel we have to go out of our way to say 'No we are not'.

When this initially kicked off, my heart sank, because I knew it would lead to us having to reiterate that we are not all 'crims' .

BBC have been balanced, I believe, with their reporting and the pictures they have used, Sky however.....

Reminds me of what happens when a muslim does a bad thing. The 99.99999% of law abiding ones get tarred and blamed too and asked ro justify whatever happenend.
The media is all over it.
But yes, the maleness, the Bled bodiness etc, none of those characteristics get picked out.

I know. That's why I agreed with tanif's earlier point about the press manipulating the situation.

Anyone with any sense knows that not all black people are rioters. They also know that black people have been victims in recent days too, because I doubt the looters and arsonists knocked on doors to check ethnicity before firebombing the shops and checking the flats above them.

However the elderly, black and white, will all remember the struggles that black people have had to be accepted as an equal part of society over the last fifty years, and the media reporting (by all channels and publications) has shown an overwhelming majority of black youths at the forefront of the rioting. It is inevitably that is is going to be seen as a step backwards, and decent black people who are as disgusted at the events as anyone else agree with this.

student riots, weren't the majority of people white?

The majority were not even students, just rent-a-mob who piled in for the sake of being able to throw things and be involved in violence.

The student riots were nothing compared to what has been happening in the last few days though.