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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My elderly neighbour told me the riots have set black people fifty years back

172 replies

sundayrose10 · 10/08/2011 02:46

Saw me coming back this evening so stopped me for a chat. Said black people have no chance now Hmm they have truly fucked up. (hmm yeah, cos we are allllllllllllllllllllllllll the same)

Is it unreasonable for me to think he could have had tact considering I am black myself Wink

I might teach him a lesson and not buy his Mail on Sunday for him any more. He is normally a sane(ish) person.

OP posts:
vigglewiggle · 10/08/2011 07:22

I have actually noticed that it is quite a mixed group of rioters this time. I know the areas of Birmingham well and they are predominantly ethnic areas. Yet a significant number of the rioters are white. Also, if you look at the appeals on behalf of the Met and WMP a significant number of those being sought (so not just bystanders) are female.

I don't think these are race riots, they are an opportunity for disaffected youth to go robbing!

thesunshinesbrightly · 10/08/2011 07:23

Exactly squeaky.

thesunshinesbrightly · 10/08/2011 07:25

And i'm also a little Hmm to the fact i hid this thread and my p.c has brought me back to it and i can post.

squeakytoy · 10/08/2011 07:27

I don't think these are race riots, they are an opportunity for disaffected youth to go robbing!

I agree, that is what it has escalated into, but initially this trouble began because a black man was shot dead by police. All of the London areas affected by the trouble have been ones which have a high number of black people.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 10/08/2011 07:28

What? Of course I know what's going on. I said I haven't seen any live footage. Not that I haven't been keeping up with things. There are these things called words, and when you read them, sometimes they tell you stuff. Also, sometimes people read those words aloud on things called radios, and you can listen to them, and that tells you things as well. Visual imagery isn't the only medium of communication, you know!

How odd that you'd think lack of proximity disqualifies me from having an opinion. Is it only Londoners who can comment on racism, then? How far away from the scene does one have to be to not count?

Squeaky - yes, exactly, but do you think that it's reasonable to say "this black person hurts the cause of black people" and not acknowledge that the very equation of the two things - i.e., that the ONE characteristic that's being singled out here is the one that is discriminated against - is problematic?

It's rather like the old saw, if a woman is bad at maths it proves that women are bad at maths, but if a man's bad at maths then it just proves that particular man happens to be bad at maths. That's what I'm saying.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 10/08/2011 07:29

More succinctly - why should people who share a characteristic with an oppressed group bear the responsibility for representing that group? Whereas people who don't, just bear the responsibility for representing themselves?

squeakytoy · 10/08/2011 07:32

I dont think anyone is saying that they should bear the responsibility. But it would be naive to say that the events of the last few nights have done anything to help improve race relations in the UK.

exoticfruits · 10/08/2011 07:33

They seem mixed groups to me-nothing to do with race. Disaffected youth that have no stake in society-and sheer greed and excitement of a fight.

vigglewiggle · 10/08/2011 07:35

Oh and BTW - I'm in Australia, but as I know a LOT of people affected, I have kept very well informed thank you very much!

EdithWeston · 10/08/2011 07:41

When you say he's elderly, how old is he?

And has he been directly caught up in these riots or earlier ones in the 1980s?

The Telegraph had an interesting article yesterday, which showed what 1980s racism was like (mainly using post Broadwater Farm commentary) and what a long way we've come. Very enlightening.

Then again, those were riots aimed at expressing frustration and focussed on the police and other emanations of the state.

This time it's not a protest - it's a diffuse set of (copycat) thieves and arsonists.

What needs to be considered isn't race, it's why there is a cohort of young people who will commit crimes like this. It's what on earth was failing in any or all aspects of social/educational policy over say the last 14-20 years whilst these teens and young adults were growing up (the emergence of the female thug being part of this). Ed Miliband has just been shown on Breakfast telly calling for this.

Poshbaggirl · 10/08/2011 07:43

If you were stopped on the street regularly just for being a mother with a pram, and searched i think you'd get a bit narked. Then all people with prams would be seen as psychos. Sad
Young black boys in London are treated really badly by the police for no reason. I'm not saying riotings a good idea, but theres alot of anger there. Who are their role models? Rich footballers? Gangster rappers?

vigglewiggle · 10/08/2011 07:48

I'm not disputing that posh but I really don't believe that that is what this is about. I agree with Edith - I think this is a new breed of "rioter".

PrettyCandles · 10/08/2011 07:50

If we were in Kenya, watching reports of rioting in Mombasa, we would probably describe the rioters as "young men", maybe even notice that a large proportion were white, because the default in Kenya is 'black', whereas the default in the UK is 'white'.

People often create groups, thoughtlessly. I have an intelligent, educated, articulate friend, who would be utterly ashamed to be racist. But being part of the majority groups in this country, he does not realise that he is sometimes casually and unintentionally racist. For example, when Israel had done something of which he disapproved, he used to come out with things like "you Jews keep shooting yourselves in the foot", until I explained to him the difference between "Jewish" and "Israeli".

Personally, I think these riots have very little to do with disaffection, black, white, male, or youth. I think it's about anarchy and deliberate destabilisation of our society and civil liberties. It is planned and deliberate, and has as much to do with justice as football hooliganism has to do with genuine football fans.

squeakytoy · 10/08/2011 07:50

Young black boys in London are treated really badly by the police for no reason

But the gang culture of (mainly) black men in London IS a major problem.

Nobody can deny that.

I live here. I see it on a daily basis where I live.

musttidyupmusttidyup · 10/08/2011 07:55

What are the current statistics for crimes committed by women with prams?

woollyideas · 10/08/2011 07:55

I agree with Tortoise and Exoticfruit and I'm not very far away from London so hope that qualifies me, Sunshine, to post in support of their comments Hmm.

And Squeaky, I think the only people who would say this is 'bad for race relations' are those who are looking for an excuse or justification to dislike another sector of society. I have watched events unfold with some shock, particularly as Ealing is where I grew up, but never once thought 'Oh, stupid, awful black people for doing this...'

On television I have seen a lot of black people condemning the actions of these thugs and only a few rather thick-sounding ones supporting them. The message I'm getting is that black people have been just as scared/ horrified/adversely affected as anyone else. I don't understand why people want to turn this into a 'them-vs-us' thing... why would anyone with half a brain cell want to do that?

Tenacity · 10/08/2011 07:56

Your neighbour is full of nonsense, but is in no way in the minority unfortunately.
I wonder if he would say the same about riots where the majority of people have been white (not that I believe the majority have been black). There have been plenty of riots where the majority of people, if not all, have been white. Does it also mean they have set their race back?? You could take the argument further and say that all white people are like Fred West, Jack the ripper, Myra Hindley to name a few. That sounds silly now, doesn't it?

woollyideas · 10/08/2011 07:58

Oh, and Sunday, YABU buying him the Mail on Sunday, but YANBU thinking he said something twattish and should have had more tact.

squeakytoy · 10/08/2011 07:59

There have been plenty of riots where the majority of people, if not all, have been white

In the UK in recent years? I dont remember them.

Catslikehats · 10/08/2011 08:06

Actually I think it may have set black people back, simply by virtue of the fact that so many individuals like your neighbour hold the view and that they are willing to tar an entire race with one brush.

Equally I think the riots have set back the poor for similar reasons.

There is certainly a lot of racist and anti welfare state crap being spouted on social media at the moment. Almost as depressing as the riots.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 10/08/2011 08:09

Yes, I completely agree, Queenof. It'll be used as an excuse for discrimination.

GColdtimer · 10/08/2011 08:10

Not sure what news footage you have all been watching but in the stuff I have seen the rooters seem to be pretty mixed racially. I certainly didn't think of it as a race issue until I saw this thread.

magicmummy1 · 10/08/2011 08:11

I am Shock at this thread. Have watched a lot of the coverage and genuinely don't think that this is about race at all. I have seen thugs of all skin colours out on the streets, throwing things, setting things on fire and looting. Of course there are lots of black people among them - there are lots of black people who live in those areas. But to make some kind of causal connection between skin colour and the criminal behaviour that we have seen betrays a very weak logic at best. Hmm

QuietTiger · 10/08/2011 08:11

I think the proportion of white/black/asian thugs/rioters is representative of the communities. If you looked at the racial make-up of the areas where taking place, you'd find all races represented proportionately.

What I mean by that, is if an area has a predominately black population (say 60%), by default, 60% of rioters in that area are going to be predominately black. If an area is predominately white (say70%), by default, then 70% rioters are going to be white.

It's not about whether the rioters are black or white. It is about the fact that the youths in question believe that they can behave with impunity and commit criminal acts without having to account for their actions.

Just because someone has a specific skin colour, it doesn't make them a criminal. The actions of the person make them a criminal.

GColdtimer · 10/08/2011 08:11

Grin rooters. My new word, saves saying rioters and looters.