"Looting 'fuelled by social exclusion'", "Blackberry messenger used to co-ordinate trouble"

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www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/looting-fuelled-by-social-exclusion?intcmp=239

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/08/london-riots-third-night-live?intcmp=239

The concept of a riot fuelled by poverty and exclusion being organised on Blackberries is doing my head in. Is this unreasonable?

news just said a 16 year old is in custody for trying to organise riots via facebook.....which is then accessed via blackberry of course!!

thats what made me laugh

only in this country could the poverty stricken, poor, jobless, edge of society outcasts organise their rioting via blackberries - you cant make it up can you

this might wash in some ares, but at the moment Bromley town centre is being closed down - bromley is hardly an area of high poverty/social deprivation.

and turn up to loot in bmws.

The riots in Liverpool have nothing to do with exclusion, but i can not help feeling that this will be used to cut dead any discussion afterwards about the 'cuts'. The connection will be made between those who will have a point and the 'underclass' wanting something for nothing.

I am starting to gets suspious about where some of the organisation for the outbreaks of violence has come from. It isn't easy to completely burn down buildings.

I remember the last 'protests' when it came to light that those arrested were upper class tory background.

YANBU... the 'flash mob' concept is quite popular and it was only a matter of time before local yobbos decided to adapt it for their own purposes. I'll let someone else tell you that poverty is relative.

Deprivation does not always mean pure poverty.

YANBU. Social exclusion my arse. Yes there is poverty in this country but people are who are genuinely struggling are unlikely to be dressed in expensive Adidas tracksuits and carrying Blackberries. And some of those people who have had their homes and possessions destroyed really are poor probably don't even have insurance, not to mention shop workers who have now lost their jobs.

I am sick of all this woolly excuse making, it doesn't help anybody. Most of these people involved are not lovely people who have been driven to it because they are disenfranchised, they are thugs who are doing it for fun and thieves who are taking advantage. There was a lot of poverty during WW2 but looters were held in contempt by most people.

It's obvious, these are seriously disadvantaged kids...if they had IPhones they wouldn't need to riot

it doesn't matter if you have insurance or not, insurance companies are refusing to pay out saying that rioting isn't covered!!

Even worse then. If you have a gripe with the police or the government then by all means stage a peaceful protest, start a campaign, whatever. Not burn down the homes and businesses of innocent people.

YANBU!

I have no Blackberry. H has a work Blackberry but really it's a device to make him work more hours.

Blackberries are much cheaper to buy than smartphones. And messaging is free and untraceable.

Like most big events it is a combination of things which sparked the trouble.

The police killing of man set this one off but it would have probably happened later anyway.

I have a blackberry for £21 a month. You can be on the lowest income and afford one.

What I want to point out is that I live in a severely deprived area, and as a single mum on benefits have a very low income. I would love to have nice things, but I know the difference between right and wrong and would never steal, vandalise or commit violent crime.

It's not an excuse, these people have choices and they choose to do the wrong thing. I get a little bit annoyed when their roots or the current social and economic climate are being used to explain their behaviour, these people are criminals, not victims of their circumstance.

No, I do not think YABU, there is something oxymoronic about these riots being organised by the businessman's best friend.

I'm struggling a bit with these riots, tbh. I'm usually to be found wringing my hands with the rest of the liberal chattering classes (or however anyone out there would like to insult the likes of me), but something about the sheer pointlessness, stupidity and naked avarice on display by these people leads me to hope they throw away the key.

I grew up in rural poverty, in a mining village, when industries were being destroyed and people were relying on food parcels to eat. When I first came to London, 20 years ago, I was amazed at how much was free for young people: free travel, free entry to museums, libraries, major cultural landmarks etc, the opportunity to broaden your mind and to see/experience other lives, cultures, races. The amazing parks! So much music, art, all the things that (for me) make life worth living on offer if you look for it. I had none of this growing up (in the pre-internet years). I just thought growing up in London must be great, no matter how poor you are.

Nicking trainers has nothing to do with social depravation, it is about a consumerist fuelled desire to acquire an image and a lifestyle you can't be bothered to work for, and in fact, is incompatible with "work", since it is the gangsta/rappa/street hardman image these people are aiming for, combined with 15 minutes of notoriety on Facebook, the new opium of the people.

I have read a lot (gawd, a lot) of insurance schedules relating to property, and riot and civil disturbance is generally excluded, ime. It's just so bloody awful for the people who tried to help their communities thrive with their businesses/offering employment.

You can get a Blackberry contract for £10-15 a month, actually.

I point this out, for the sake of facts, not to justify criminal activity.

It would come under arson.

Some woolly liberal handwringing excusing claptrap written by Camila Whatserface from Kids Company in the Telegraph.

Fuck sake, quit blaming every other fucker but the scum and their parents.

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/camila-batmanghelidjh-caring-costs-ndash-but-so-do-riots-2333991.html

Sorry, excusing claptrap in the Independant.

There is an awful article in the Guardian defending the rioters, as well.

Maybe I should stop reading the Grauniad. It's been raising my blood pressure a lot in the last few years.

Looting should carry a minimum sentence of sufficient length to act as a deterrent. No if, no buts, no early release for good behaviour. Plus benefits/earnings to be docked by 5% for life, for each proven episode of looting, to fund reparations.

We are not in the throes of a war being fought within the UK, we are not suffering some natural disaster, there is no excuse for the actions of the rioters/looters. There may be grounds for a grievance/protest of some kind but criminal acts are not acceptable.

I will don my flameproof suit here, but IMHO these riots have nothing to do with "cuts". I'll eat my hat if more than a minority of the rioters/looters have held down a job/provided for themself financially for any length of time. They are not the ones bearing the financial brunt of the cuts, yet.

These people are out for the thrill of a party atmosphere of gratuitous violent excitement with theft (looting) of other people's property providing an end of party goodybag to take home.

I would like for the police to be able to use sprays of permanent marking ink to shower them so that they can't run off and blend into the crowd. They'd hopefully be visible (even if only by their absence from their usual haunts) for days on end and could then be picked up in a more leisurely fashion after crowd dispersal.

Unless you are going to kill off the poor; explanations will have to be discovered.

Cameron will talk tough because he thinks there are votes in it.

But his Tory mob are incapable of providing jobs for young men; which will help to solve the problem

It's quite telling that the City of London/financial centre has not been hit. If this "protest" was about cuts, if the rioters were politically aware or cared why this country is in a financial mess, they'd be outside the financial institutions who brought this about. But no, no branches of JB Sports in the City, Oxford Street is the likely target once they've finished burning their own back yards.

The rioters don't care about the financial state of the country, because, good economic climate or bad, their "condition" is likely to remain static because their mentality is maximum gain for minimum effort. It takes effort to earn those GCSEs, in order to get that Saturday job, in order to buy those trainers (saving up for a few weeks, having the will power to delay gratification). It takes next to nothing to stick a brick through a window to get the same. I feel bloody sorry for anyone who actually wants their life to change and is not getting that help through school and their communities, and are angry. But I don't think this is what these people are about at all.