to think that wheelchairs should be priority on buses?

[mamadivazback]

My DS and I were on the bus today coming home from the town when I noticed a woman I vaguely know to speak to in the queue behind about 8 people with her 6YO DD who is in a narrow childs wheelchair and her DP with 2 year old son in small stroller so we waved, as you do.

Now the bus was about half full and 2 girls got on with their children in pushchairs, one with a very large Emmaljunga type and the other with a stroller and both children were happily sitting up by themselves and looked to be about 18 months old but neither thought to fold their pushchair when the lady tried to get her DD on, she had taken her DS out so she could fold pushchair and all sit together but the bus driver told her she could not get on as there were already 2 pushchairs onboard so she had to wait behind in the rain for the next bus.

I know pushchairs are entitled to use the bus but I thought you had to fold them if a wheelchair user was getting on and was quite shocked when the bus driver refused her a ticket, I spoke to her later on and she said it has happened a few times and it's just bad luck but I really don't think it's fair.

meant to add feel free to come and try his life also!!

Riven makes an important point that is often overlooked. These spaces aren't buggy spaces - they were only put there to allow access for wheelchair users because the law recognised that those with disabilities have a right to be part of society like everyone else.

Pram users only have the luxury of these spaces 99% of the time because of the work done by disabilty campaigners.

And then some of those pram users have the unsufferable nerve to deny the use of those spaces to the people who they were introduced for.

If pram access on buses depended on an organised persistent campaign by pram users, I would imagine we would still have seats right through the bus and no accessible spaces at all.

Riven, but you knew the buses weren't accessible so bought your buggy accordingly.

I'd seen prams on the bus, and was expecting to be able to walk anyway, so as my dear old Mum who bought the pram for me was quite insistent on a tank pram, I went with that.

That doesn't mean I think I deserve the space, just that I'm not a fucking idiot, or incredibly lazy, I was just naive.

Only allowing buggies onto buses that can be folded would be a good rule for the bus companies to bring in, that would help make it quite clear that if required you must be able to fold. Knowing that might have changed what buggy I bought.

So you have PND you make it out for the first time with your pushchair and it's pissing down, you finally get a bus that allows for your pram and should then get off at the next stop to allow a wheelchair user to get on?

What about people just being people? People in need are people in need. Fair enough the pushchairs that can fold, do fold but as we live in a country where bus drivers practically break passengers necks speeding off and passengers that would rather tell you to fuck off than help I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to ride on a bus where there's space for a pram.

You fold posie. And ask the driver to wait while you sit. Folding means both you and the wheelchair user can get on the bus. Not folding leaves the wheelchair user innthe rain. D'uh
And getting a child in a wheelchair out and about is harder than having PND or caesareans or 3 under 3 or a double buggy. Cos i have done it all. You aremore than welcome to take dd out for a day and give it a try. Have fun.

But what about the fact that there must be dozens of pram users for every wheelchair user, particularly in "nappy valley" type areas like SW London. Some of those pram users will have had C-sections, some will have PND, some will be knackered, some will have a sod you attitude, some will be recovering from stitches, the list goes on. If there isn't a general acceptance that pram users fold or get off for wheelchair users, you could easily finish up with a situation where a disabled person sat at their local bus-stop every single day of their lives watching bus after bus go by.

Every day. With no end to it in sight.

For most mums, the really difficult early days will pass and things will get easier and sooner or later their children will grow up and it will stop being an issue. For the disabled person that won't happen. There will be a new set of mums every year, all with their own personal reason why they shouldn't be the one to move.

Surely it is a million times better for a struggling new mum to have to get off the bus once (because you would be pretty damn unlucky to encounter this situation regularly) and wait for the next one, than for every disabled person in a busy area to head out of their door with that sinking feeling because they know their journey will be hellish.

Every day.

i'm pretty sure the buses in glasgow have stickers on the wheelchair seats saying you must give it up for one that goes for everyone... i'd have complained loudly

Well said kungfu. Off to bed and tomorrow will be taking dd on a bus into town. Am dreading it. Will she get stared at? Will we get abuse? Will we have to ask some foul mluthed person to fold? Will dd hear what the average person thinks of her kind! Will the bus driver refuse to put down the ramp?
Oh, and probably have another 30 years of this. Until i drop dead.

Actually I don't fold, I (in the rare instances I got on a bus) used a carrier for the exact reason you've pointed out. But I can understand that for some people it's not that simple.

I'm not sure I want to get into a debate about who suffers more, it's a bit uncomfortable. I can't imagine that a mother with debilitating PND feels any better off than a wheelchair user, I'm no expert but I don't think depression works like that.

Still we all know the majority of pushchair pushers could fold, could carry the baby but choose not to and think it's their right as much as anyone else to use the space set aside for a wheelchair user. They are of course, without question wrong.

Fucking hell, we should demand all buses be made coach sized with at least half the area used for prams so the hummer brigade can have their way, sod the very people the buses were designed for in the first place.

Really don't know how I managed all those years ago with two disabled kids and no accessible buses, I don't know how I managed not to burst into floods of tears at the bus stop when faced with the issue of folding my pram.

I must be both a special person and a saint

And those 'entitled' mothers are not the sort that can be reasoned with or challenged.

'Common sense must prevail, my baby had a pushchair that was huge when folded and I had a CS and so I would not have been able to get about if I had to give up space for a wheelchair user. Travelling on a bus alone, trying to fold a huge pushchair alone.

Of course if the pushchair is easily folded that's another story.'

That makes you sound like a rather dim and pretentious woman who didn't do much research. You chose a huge pushchair? That is impossible to fold on your own?
Do you think a disabled person gets a choice about the wheelchair?
It is a pity you didn't follow your mother's example.

'I don't think that means that a mother and baby automatically takes second place to someone with disabilities, but if a pushchair can be folded it should be.'

You don't think that a mother and child should take second place to a wheelchair user?

Prams are just shit aren't they. Baby carriers are definitely the way forward.

Baby carriers and internet shopping, then this would be a non-issue for the majority of mothers.
There'd still be the odd AIBU about the mother of twins v. wheelchair user on the last bus in Britain with only one accessible space, but on the whole, problem solved.

Maybe new mothers that aren't managing very well should stay off public transport until things improve for them. Stitches heal, they learn to be competent with buggies and babies, they work out how much shopping they can handle at a time.
Unlike a wheelchair user, that is an option available to them.
I can see why some non-parents get so vocal about the sense of entitlement some parents have and insist on.

I am just going to agree with riven and goblin.

Yeah mothers, stay at home, that'll cure your baby blues.

I was bought a pram that would fold flat for the baby's back, I don't use buses, I had a CS and used a sling......

Had I not had one I would have driven.

Still moot point and no I don't think anyone automatically takes priority over anyone else.

Well, only for a few months.
Just til things get better.

It won't get better if you stay at home.

Oh, you could go for brisk walks, meet up with some NCT chums, knit something, take up extreme breastfeeding. Fill your time until you can get on a bus without feeling that everyone else should kowtow to your Rights As A Mother to break the law and make disabled people feel like lesser lifeforms.
Until you gain a sense of perspective, society and your place within it.

Every bus I've ever been in is clearly labelled wheelchairs have priority. I've seen buggies move or get off to make room for wheelchairs.

Quite and amazed at your busdriver.

Btw I could never fold my pushchair - always pretty loaded up. I'd move or wait for next bus. I live in area with lots of busses!

yeah I remember one of the times I had scenario earlier was because the new mother couldn't cope, had had a CS and had PND and to top it her pram was a hummer with plenty of chrome and bling.

Wheelchair first.
Pushchair second.

Simple

Mild PND is fuck all compared to being stuck in a wheelchair. Obviously.
But that doesn't mean it's nothing at all. It's still shit.

Rather than simply declaring everyone who was stupid enough to get pregnant without having a personal driver suck it up, can't we look for solutions that benefit everyone?