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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to post this as a precautionary tale - co-sleeping

148 replies

SylvanianFamilies · 29/07/2011 14:46

Baby dies in father's bed

Disclaimer - I've never been against co-sleeping, but have never managed to do it (just can't sleep when baby is in bed even if I try) - but in a recent conversation with a friend she admitted she would never do it for fear of suffocating the baby. I thought she was being over-anxious until I read this today.

OP posts:
ChristinedePizan · 29/07/2011 19:43

I posted about this years ago but when my DS was 9 months old, he was rushed to the hospital about 1am with severe breathing difficulties - turned out he had bronchiolitis and was on oxygen for a week. If I hadn't been co-sleeping, he could well have died because I would have had no idea that he was having such massive difficulty breathing (even if he'd been in a cot in my room I don't think I would have known, it was the speed of his breathing that scared me). As it was, he was pretty blue by the time I turned on the light.

When a baby is small, they are entirely reliant on a parent being able to pick up any signs that something is wrong and co-sleeping is the easiest way to do that.

working9while5 · 29/07/2011 19:45

I think the most awful thing about this is that publically professionals have told a grieving family it was more or less their fault.

I don't see what's to be gained from that, even if it were true (and I see no evidence to suggest that they should be making the quotes they are).

Starchart · 29/07/2011 19:51

Well you know professionals........ Wink

Starchart · 29/07/2011 19:51

The thing is, are the professionals really making those quotes, or are they set up to make them for the article?

working9while5 · 29/07/2011 19:56

There is a bit of that I suppose, you can imagine the questions.

Bloody media then!

flyingspaghettimonster · 29/07/2011 20:00

I don't understand the bit about small babies not being able to roll over. Mine always could in their sleep - the would roll their legs into their chests, then throw their heads back and they'd be on one side, easy to then shift to their front. I don't think it is necessarily because the parents were in the bed that the baby rolled.

That said, I hated co-sleeping on the few occasions we did it. I couldn't sleep because I was so aware of the baby. Ours spent the first 6 months sleeping in their swing chair...

CocktailQueen · 29/07/2011 20:06

That's so sdad. I agree with other posters that it's more likely that a father could accidentally smother/roll onto.be less aware of his dc in the bed with him -sounds like the baby has been rolled over by his father moving in bed and has been unable to turn over - soft mattress, maybe the baby was in the dip in the middle and just couldn't move.

I co slept with ds on and off from birth - I bf - and naturally curled round him with one arm above him and my knees up under him and I was never deeply asleep when he was in bed with me - I was always half aware of him. Co-sleeping is safe so long as guidelines ae adhered to - baby on top of covers, no alcohol for parents, not being over tired etc (ha ha) etc.

PumpkinBones · 29/07/2011 20:15

I never co-slept with DS1 - too paranoid! I was much more tired with DS2 and physically coundn't sit up feeding him. He used to go to bed in his own cot, and get in with me at about midnight. We'd fall asleep with him feeding, so my arm would be underneath him, and me on my side, I did still have a few panics when I woke up and thought he'd stopped breathing! I wouldn't have let him sleep with DH, who spent most of the first 6 months on the sofa, mainly because he smokes, but also because I just didn't feel that he would be as aware of DS2 as I was.

I agree that cases like this should not be included in the overall SIDS figures.

cerealqueen · 29/07/2011 20:59

I think I'm right in that some cultures having the baby in a cot in tantamount to madness...and those are the cultures with little or no SIDS?
We co-slept with DD, I breastfed and fully intend to do it with next DC, (I've persuaded DP we need a king size bed for that reason!) but like many posters, Dd slept in crook of my arm, no duvets or pillows near, no smoking, no alcohol.

bestfootforwards · 29/07/2011 21:39

I co-slept from day one as I found it the best way to deal with a hungry baby plus caesarean scar. The first time it happened was when I just fell asleep when feeding lying down. We asked our visiting midwife and she gave us guidance on how to do so safely.

When ds was admitted to hospital aged 5 months they set up a bed for us beside his cot and I fed him to sleep and he slept next to me and they were fine with that.

bestfootforwards · 29/07/2011 21:39

I co-slept from day one as I found it the best way to deal with a hungry baby plus caesarean scar. The first time it happened was when I just fell asleep when feeding lying down. We asked our visiting midwife and she gave us guidance on how to do so safely.

When ds was admitted to hospital aged 5 months they set up a bed for us beside his cot and I fed him to sleep and he slept next to me and they were fine with that.

bestfootforwards · 29/07/2011 21:41

Oh forgot to say, having a super king size bed made a lot of difference as plenty of space for us. I slept between dh and ds, and didn't use pillow or duvet

grubbalo · 29/07/2011 21:54

This news story on Fox News is actually really interesting
www.phdinparenting.com/2010/05/05/fox-news-video-on-bed-sharing/
It's just a shame that it's something that it is almost impossible to discuss without it turning into a bf vs ff debate, which it shouldn't be. If there is something in this research, then there should be further research to try to determine why - maybe it's the position bf babies are more likely to lie in? i.e. if you co-sleep and bf, perhaps the baby is more likely to be positioned so their head is alongside the mother's chest - is a ff baby more likely to be positioned up near pillows?
Like I say it's so interesting and I am sure is nothing to do with the type of milk these babies are having, but some other physical factor.

InfestationofLannisters · 29/07/2011 22:05

I was feeding DS nicely in a chair on the post-natal ward when a midwife came and bellowed at me that I should take him into bed. I tried to explain that with DD I had never been able to feed lying down due to the shape of my boobs although in hindsight this was just inexperience.

Midwife yanked DS' head from my breast without breaking the latch. It bruised my nipple and made it very sore.

Then she held him by the scruff of the neck while I was speechless with pain and fear. he screamed and she said he must be "teething"

She commanded me to lie down and feed DS that way. To co-sleep.

I couldn't feed that way for weeks so I sat up that night and for other nights.

"Teething" WTF? I swear they know that you are in no position to complain.

RitaMorgan · 29/07/2011 22:12

Never thought I'd find something on Fox News so reasonable!

posterofagirl · 29/07/2011 22:17

My DD mashes her face into the side of the cot after rolling on her side and has done since she was born, leading the hospital mw to advise co sleeping so at least she rolls into me!

posterofagirl · 29/07/2011 22:19

Oops posted too soon!
The point of my little story was that the baby in the op could well have done the same and it is borderline ridicules to state that babies can't roll.

Starchart · 29/07/2011 22:25

They also advise that you should never leave a baby, no matter how young on you bed while you are doing something/lOoking for something as the can still manage to roll off.

Either babies can role or they can't.

I slept with dd, but I was weird and had to sleep on my side with my back to her. She was safe though.

ChristinedePizan · 29/07/2011 22:31

What's horrible about what you have said poster and flyingspaghettimonster is that your babies were quite capable of rolling over (mine was swaddled so he couldn't move). And this couple are left with the agony that somehow they caused their baby's death when maybe it was not actually their fault :(

VelveteenRabbit · 29/07/2011 23:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CocktailQueen · 29/07/2011 23:16

But Christine it looks as though the father did - albeit accidentally - cause his son's death. Not all babies can roll over. Cause of death was 'undetermined.'

The Fox video was v interesting.

Morloth · 29/07/2011 23:27

I coslept a lot and always put myself between DS and DH.

There was no chance of me rolling on them because I could always feel where they were (usually attached to the all night milkbar). But DH just didn't have the same instinct.

Poor family, it was an accident but the outcome is so awful.

sakura · 30/07/2011 01:29

It has long ago been proven that putting a baby to sleep seperately from the mother increases the risk of SIDS. In fact, that is precisely why SIDS is called "cot-death" in the UK and "crib death" in the US and Canada.

MOst countries around the world of course cannot afford a separate room for a new baby. OR even a cot. This is a preserve of the rich world.

In Japan, where I live, all mothers sleep with their children until around age eight. Even if they do have enough space to make a separate bedroom for the child they choose to keep their children with them.
Not saying everyone has to do this, but I'm just pointing out how silly it is to be dogmatic about co-sleeping.

THe concept of putting a baby to sleep separately was aggressively pushed in the mid-twentieth century by so-called child "experts" who were invariably male. They also pushed formula onto mothers and all but destroyed breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding makes the chance of SIDS even less likely because the mother's sleep cycles are in synch with the baby. If she takes a sudden deep breath, the baby will too. THis happens even if a baby is NOT being breastfed. So co-sleeping stimulates a baby's breathing.

There are a couple of things you should look out for, though. In Japan, everyone sleeps on foutons on the floor and this is extremely safe, but if you have a big soft mattress then that could be a problem. Also, they say that alcohol can impair your awareness of the baby, but not sure if that's true. In Japan, it's common for the father not to sleep in the same bed as the mother-baby unit until the child is a bit older. I do think men should take a step back and allow a mother and baby the space to bond.

Having said that, co-sleeping is not for everyone. But I think it's cultural elitism to suggest that it is The Wrong Way To Do Things, though,

FreudianSlipper · 30/07/2011 01:46

very sad story and i have read similar stories

but for me co sleeping felt natural and if i had another baby and it felt like it was right to co sleep i would, i think it is the most natural way for a baby to sleep and as others have said having a separate room is a luxury we have

one of my fondest memories is of feeding ds in bed laying on my side, he looked so tiny and i felt overwhelmed with emotion, then i rocked him to sleep and placed him next to me where i felt he belonged

garlicbutter · 30/07/2011 01:47

Just going by the link in the OP, the coroner was saying she couldn't be sure the baby wouldn't have died if the man hadn't been drunk. So maybe a bit of judging there, but it's a fair point, surely? You would want the adult in charge of your baby to be sober.

Fact that the mum went off to the spare room speaks volumes, I'm guessing.
Anyway, it was the paper that made the link to warnings about co-sleeping in general, the coroner only said there were too many variables at stake.

She's talking rubbish about a 5-week old baby not being able to turn, though. They wriggle about, it's what they're supposed to do!