to post this as a precautionary tale - co-sleeping

[SylvanianFamilies]

Baby dies in father's bed

Disclaimer - I've never been against co-sleeping, but have never managed to do it (just can't sleep when baby is in bed even if I try) - but in a recent conversation with a friend she admitted she would never do it for fear of suffocating the baby. I thought she was being over-anxious until I read this today.

Hormones my arse. Formula feeders still have hormones you know, we still gave birth, we still have instincts, we still bond with our babies. I was trying not to let it piss me off but actually it is now.

You won't have breastfeeding hormones if you're not breastfeeding though will you? Don't remember anyone mentioning saying ffers don't have instincts or bonding It's up to everyone to consider the information available and make the best decision for them and their family, it's not bf v. ff.

No, but do you not think we have enough other hormones flooding our systems to get us through? They're not the only type of bloody hormones.

It wasn't bf vs ff...

I get really irritated about the mixing up of SIDS and deaths caused by u safe co-sleeping. SIDS is unexplained. Deaths caused by overlaying or a baby being rolled over or covered by blankets are not unexplained. They are accidental deaths, not SIDS.

As far as I am aware (and I have done a fair bit of reading of studies) breastfeeding reduces the risk of sIDS and co-sleeping reduces the risk of SIDs. I read one large US study which found no cases of a breastfed, co-sleeping baby dying of SIDS. Surely, therefore, as long as it is done safely, all babies are at less risk of SIDS if they co-sleep?

Unsafe, not u safe

I have no idea Gwendoline, I don't know enough about it to understand why ff babies have a higher risk.

From the article the OP linked to:

"Paediatric pathologist Dr Caroline Gannon said:

"Co-sleeping in a managed environment isn't harmful in itself, but where there's other risk factors it is harmful, and certainly for very young infants who are only a few weeks of age, it is dangerous." "

So basically the answer to the OP's question is right there in the article, which makes me think that either she didn't read it properly or was just stirring. And on an emotive topic like this I can understand why she changed her name to do that.

FWIW I agree that FSID and the government's approach to mothers whereby they patronisingly assume, as another poster said, that we're too dumb to co-sleep correctly or understand risk is putting more children in danger. People do co-sleep, but without guidance on what to do they are far more likely do it in an unsafe manner.

WTF Gwendoline? How is a biological fact that there are different hormone levels between breast and formula feeding mothers annoying you?

Prolactin and oxytocin are obviously going to be different. These have been shown to affect maternal sleep patterns so it is a sensible suggestion.

But the advice from FSID is not to do it at all. So there is no advice there to be followed.

And actually it is unnecessary to sterilise baby bottles in a country where the water is clean:
In the old days when water supplies were not reliably clean, it made sense to sterilize baby bottles. But now, sterilizing bottles, nipples, and water is mostly unnecessary.

Unless your water supply is suspected to harbor contaminated bacteria, it is as safe for your baby as it is for you. There is no reason to sterilize what is already safe. Sterilizing the bottles and nipples is also unwarranted. Thorough cleaning with soap and water gets rid of almost all germs. And once on the bottle, the nipple begins to pick up all the germs in the environment, so a "sterile" nipple and bottle is just a pipe dream anyway.

From here

A lot of sense

I read in a baby book at the library that said:
"NEVER accidentally fall asleep with your child on a sofa" .

I'm sure we'd all rather NEVER accidentally do anything dangerous but the nature of accidents are that, well, they are accidents surely?

I've looked around since previous posts and can't find any recent research backing up the idea that bf mothers have physiologically different sleep patterns. Which is kind of annoying as I'd read somewhere that if you are breastfeeding you don't get proper Stage 4 sleep and had blamed that for my being knackered all the time, when it turns out I'm just knackered for no particular high-faluting physiological reason.

I was shown how to co-sleep as safely as possible whilst still in hospital with DS2. We bought one of those co sleeper 3 sided cots on ebay for 25 quid and it was the best purchase we ever made.

I co-slept with both of mine - I just didn't ask anyone, it seemed like the logical thing to do. Neither would settle in their own cots, I needed to sleep and it was fine. In fact, the night I had DS2, the MW said, "Put him in bed with you, you'll both sleep better."
DS1 was BF and bottle fed, DS2 was only BF. They slept between DH and me, or just next to me.
It's the most natural thing in the world - I'm sure it's more the norm the world over than not.

Absolutely agree with faverolles.
When I had my second daughter (living in the US at that time) my pedi was very against co-sleeping and actually lost patients because of her point of quoting 'studies' at them.
When I read into it in detail, and reading the advice of Dr Sears (a very good public pedi, no quack etc) the main report quoted to back the anti-co sleeping stance was in fact sponsored by a federation of furniture manufacturers - making guess what- cots.
That aside, the latest research in the states conducted on many more families and not counting in SIDS found co sleeping to be marginally safer.
I personally co-slept and took similiar precautions to those mentioned here, and it saved my sanity. I love it, and I think it really helps with maternal bonding.

Pirate I heard that too. Certainly experienced it that way but have never ff'd so don't know if it's just a new mother thing.

I didn't cosleep until 12 weeks because I was terrified.. then I was just so knackered it started to happen more and more and by six months he was in the bed with us. Bed pushed up flush against the walll, he was on top of a sheet, I was under it. I was manic about keeping the sheet tightly tucked in so there was no movement etc, no pillows etc etc.

Ruined my back. I literally didn't move, I would stay totally rigid and curled up around him and barely slept. Got him out and into a cot at 9 months and felt like a new woman.

That pamphlet is really interesting, I certainly wasn't given it when I left hospital with DD, which is a shame because we did try it out a bit and had no idea what we were doing really.

Anyway, I didn't get on with it for loads of reasons, including just being too afraid to go to sleep in case I squished her/the blankets rode up over her head etc.

It was fairly pointless for us anyway, as I couldn't comfortable breastfeed when lying down until she was much older. I have/had very small boobs, thus my nipple was waaay higher up than her mouth could reach, and I had to lean over her, very uncomfortably, and probably not in a very safe manner.

I'd be concerned about a five week old bottle fed baby sleeping next to its father.

I wouldn't be concerned about a five week old breastfed baby sleeping next to its mother.

"Formula feeders still have hormones you know, we still gave birth, we still have instincts, we still bond with our babies"

Course you do. But you are less likely to wake to you baby in the night, and to turn your back on your baby in your sleep because your prolactin and oxytocin levels are lower, therefore the quality of your sleep is different.

"I don't know enough about it to understand why ff babies have a higher risk."

I should imagine it has something to do with higher rates of infectious illness in ff babies.

Sorry should have read:

'But you are less likely to wake to you baby in the night, and more likely to turn your back on your baby in your sleep'