to think this is neglect & abuse??

[asecretlemonadedrinker]

I am reeling, need to vent. DSs school were not changing him when soiled, calling me to collect, stuffing paper towels down his dirty pants, shutting him alone in small rooms when soiled, telling him off (medical problem BTW) the f ing formal hearing panel have ruled this as not being abuse & neglect. My son was bleeding sometimes on collection, sitting alone in shit on a paper towel.... how is that not child abuse???? They lied and lied, saying they HAD to strip him naked in a corridor because to use the 2nd boys cubical (1st he had smeared excrememnt in) would be unfiar to any boys needing the toilet and they wouldn't want to use the girls cubicals directly opposite! How fucking dare they strip my son naked and make such a pathetic excuse for not maintianing any dignity for him. I am trying to remain so cool and calm throughout all this but they just can't see how awfully they treated DS!!

Sorry, should have mentioned, I'm a clerk to school governors working for an agency, so I work with a lot of schools.

I;ve read your posts before and your son seems to generally soil himself after lunch. I think it has been suggested before that you take him home for lunch and allow him to use the toilet at home. The school are saying this again and I'm unsure why this isnt happening and why you are so opposed to it.

If your son is wiping excrement over the toilet walls then this seems more of an issue than merely soiling his pants. You seem to be at loggerheads with the school with neither side finding a solution. From memory your son is very young, are we talking 4 or 5. If so, I doubt it's going to disrupt his education too much if he were to do mornings only until you got this problem sorted.

:( for you and your DS SLD.

I hope you get your apology and the woman feels about 2 inches tall when she gives it to you because thats how she made your DS feel. There are so many things here that go against the DDA, as well as safeguarding children policies. (My DS is in mainstream and is still in nappies. He has to have 2 people change him every time.)

Having had to fight SN stuff at schools not much shocks me, but ASLD I'm speechless.

Your poor child, what disgusting treatment by the school.

IIWY I would have pulled him out long ago.

Have you contacted a solicitor?

To hold a child against their will alone in a room is illegal unless special dispensation from the LEA is given.

Teachers cannot be compelled to change a soiled child, but they do have a duty of care and are required to at in loco parentis. In practical terms, this means that they should instruct a member of support staff to change a child properly, in a manner which maintains a child's dignity.

Ignore any perceived 'mocking' from the staff- focus on their actions, which are completely unacceptable.

Hold on to any apology letter- it may be useful.

trifle - if the OP's DS has a medical problem it isnt going to just get better. He is entitled to full time schooling and the school are not providing for him, which is their duty to do so.

Speak to these people www.lgo.org.uk/contactus/

"If your son is wiping excrement over the toilet walls then this seems more of an issue than merely soiling his pants."

Having taught children who did this and more, I can assure you that the solution is never to leave a child alone, leave them sat in excrement, or strip them naked in front of others.

panel was 3 people from the board of governers. They seemed great, but obviously in the end have shown they are favouring the school. Apparently if I was not happy I could have contacted the family support officer or something? Who on earth is that?? The school did nothing, the excuse given for not doing a CAF is they didn't need to. They clearly bloody did ! Head said someone told her they were struggling to meet DSs needs. Suprise suprose, could not remember who. DS was changed in the first term - sent home with clothes in a bag, but no one admitted to changing him! Head said someone said he regressed around Christmas, and again in Spring. She cannot remember who, and no one will admit. Receptionist heard something things spoken infront of her nose, and not others. THe things in the schools favour BTW. One teacher said"oh my god" when they saw DS had soiled, but apparently she would not say that because she is a catholic! DS wouldn't lie, the story is too consistant , too clear. Same story the few times he has told me over the past few months. Can tell me where is happened, how it happened and what happened after, amkes total sense and too complex to lie about. DH and I were at the parents evenings, clearly remember us talking to teacher on both evenings about DSs medical problems - teacher says we did not. Why on earth would we not??? He was seeing a paediatrician?!! And we vividly remember it. ARGH

solicitor won't touch with a bargepole. One will but £185 an hour. It's education law, so hardly any deal with it. We haven't the money, I am doing this on my own - spent many nights up until 3-4am gathering evidence and responding to evidence before the hearing - have now a full box of paperwork, photos etc.

Sorry, don't know the backstory...

Did the school ever make a referral to the Educational Psychologist?

Have they placed him on School Action/School Action Plus? Does he have an IEP?

Have you contacted the LEA?

Has the Paediatrician ever contacted school or written a report for them?

OP, what sort of additional needs does your son have? Is he prone to smearing toilet walls? Has this been an issue at school before?

OP I am so sorry they are treating your son with such a lack of respect and trying to cover for themselves.

Those who are saying her son smeared the poo - I don't think it was him, I think she's saying there was poo smeared in one of the cubicles already, not that he did it.

sounds awful, but not sure who is responsible for cleaning up your son. hope you can get some good advice

It doesn't matter if he did or didn't smear the poo, treating any child in this way is completely unacceptable.

encopresis....faecal incontinence.

gp wrote letter within an hour or so of it being requested.

He smeared it around at home, no idea it was a symptom until recently. New school - smearing stopped dead. No psychologist, GP is very "lets just move on" now he is at a new school - fab GP mind.

Had an IEP eventually, was awful - only one change per day , and given he was hiding, so scared of teachers and does not alwaysd know when he has soiled, I asked he be checked about hourly. They said no, because not enough staff to change him in afternoons?? Started going on about pulling TAs out of other classes etc. if he had soiled. No funding etc. sought though. New school checks him 6 times a day, he had never come home soiled and infact is soiling less and less now he is happy and confident.

Bearcrumble - read first para - it says 'he had smeared excrement in'.

I dont think you are going to win your battle. You want the school to clean your son up on a regular basis. Sorry, but if I was a teacher, ta or whatever, I would definately not have signed up for that and, much as you dont like it, the teachers in your son's school havent either.

It's pointless trying to find out who said, did what, who changed him etc etc. The bottom line is, can the school deal with changing your son on a regular basis with as much dignity as possible. If the answer is no, then either take him out at lunch time, move him, home educate him, come in on a daily basis to clean him up or seek medical alternatives.

Incidentally, what happens at home on weekends, school holidays etc. Does he still soil then or does he get to a toilet.

how old is he

wrt poo on the walls; if it was him, there's nothing to say that he did it on purpose.

Given he'd know how dreadfully he'd be treated if he sought help, I can imagine him trying to manage the soiling himslef and making a bit of a mess doing so (understandable for a small child).

Having said that if it was some kind of "dirty protest", given his treatment I'm not bloody surprised.

Fuckers.

Please move him. Sorry I keep saying that - but if you can I really think you should.

So sorry to hear this, I can't imagine how you must be feeling, but I am wondering why your DS hasn't been seen by an educational psychologist- have you been down this route yet?
Also if he is under the hospital, Sorry you've probably been over this, but it is allowable to change a child in school.

I am truly sorry that you and your son feel you are being treated unfairly and are distressed by the situation. However, if your son soiling himself is a regular occurance , the school can not be expected to clean him and the mess up on a regular basis.

Teachers are there to educate the children not to be a nurse or carer. Whilst, a teacher should care for a child's physical wellbeing they can not and should not be asked to clean up a child covered in excrement on a regular basis. I think that perhaps your son needs more specialist care in the form of a carer or support in school by someone who can take care of these issues. It is simply not fair on the teachers, staff and other pupils to deal with this.

first line of their job descriptions state they should take care of "personal care". It seems they now are towing the party line of they will change a soiled child, but not pull ups (they wanted DS only to return in pulls ups against advise from continence nurse - new school said pants were fine) - they would not even allow me to use childrens continence pants! If your DD/DS soiled, trifle, and they could nto contact you, I am sure you would be just as upset as me that your child had been left to the point of bleeding.

Oh I mean to say Also if he is under the hospital, have they not sent through guidelines directly to the school and offered training to staff?

Obviously there's a considerable history here and, without being in possession of all of the facts, it's not going to be possible for any reader to give a properly informed opinion.

If I'm reading you correctly, you say that your ds had smeared excrement in the 1st cubicle. If that is the case, it would seem probable that your ds needed to be divested of all of his clothing but IMO it was not appropriate for him to be stripped naked in a corridor when, presumably, other rooms were available to clean him.

If you are saying that the 1st cubicle could not be used because of smeared excrement, with the implication being that your ds had played no part in its condition, it still would have been appropriate to remove him to a private room to clean him as trying to perform this task in the close confines of a toilet cubicle would not be particularly easy.

It would seem that scant regard was paid to the dignity of your ds, but it is a moot point as to whether this incident constituted abuse per se as it needs to be considered in the light of additional information from the relevant staff.

If your ds was left alone in a soiled condition for any great length of time it would seem that neglect may have occurred or, at the very least, staff may have failed in their duty of care. However, again, additional information is needed before any opinion can be formed.

Was the hearing you referred to called by the LEA to address a (your?) formal complaint? If so, you will have a right to appeal any decision and, depending on the outcome, can refer the matter to the Secretary of State for Education or apply for Judicial Review.

I know how exceedingly difficult it can be to take on bureaucracy in an attempt to hold individuals to account for their actions it can be a nightmare worthy of Kafka. The best advice I can give you is to endeavour to detach yourself from the minutiae as much as possible and play them at their own game continually put the ball in their court.

All I can say by way of encouragement is that dogged persistence has been known to produce results, but this often takes a considerable toll on the time and mental health and physical well-being of the complainant which is why so many give up.

Have you sought legal advice and did you have legal representation at the hearing?

Sorry - x-post.