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AIBU?

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Original poster

My 5 year old niece was told to go home and pray

490 replies

freyjasauntie · 21/07/2011 10:56

I am really upset that my 5 year old niece was told by her school teacher to go home and pray at bedtime. Although she goes to a C of E school, this is due to logistics of living in the country, and the school are aware that she is being raised atheist, (she was enrolled as such) with a view to letting her decide her own path when she is ready to understand what that entails.

If a Muslim teacher had told her girls to go home and wear hijab, there would be uproar, but it seems to be accepted that schools can promote Christian ideology. I have no problems with my niece being taught about Jesus, about being kind to each other, about truth telling and other so called Christian Values (which can be found in almost any religion) but I strongly object to her being told to give up something for Lent (she had no idea why she should do so), and to pray at bedtime.

Religious Education should be EDUCATION, as a qualified RE teacher, I have always presented all world religious as equally valuable, but there is a real difference between education and what I believe is insidious indoctrination.

OP posts:
Milngavie · 21/07/2011 15:18

If the child attends a faith school then of course she is going to learn about prayer and God and Jesus.

The child is 5, her teacher may have told her that some children pray at bedtime or asked that they all try saying a prayer so they could discuss it next time in class. I find it hard to believe a teacher, even at a faith school, has told a class of 5 year old to pray with no explanation as to why.

soverylucky · 21/07/2011 15:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GiddyPickle · 21/07/2011 15:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NorfolkNChamberOfSecrets · 21/07/2011 15:46

I am actually shocked by the OP. I too am an RE teacher albeit in a C of E school. In my lessons students are told what the different religions teach about issues etc. My subject has nothing to do with the ethos of the school.

The ethos means we have prayers, hymns, visiting clergy into collective worship. The students can be withdrawn from this aspect by parental request (we have a number of JW students who do just this) so I am at a loss to understand how someone who works in education cannot advise the child's parents to do exactly that and avoid any issues in future.

If course I would expect that child to also be removed from Christmas, Easter, Eucharists etc also as they are focused on the ethos in faith schools and we wouldn't want the child to get confused.

Original poster
freyjasauntie · 21/07/2011 15:57

The OP is asking that once a child is already in a faith school whether by choice or because it is the nearest / best school and the parents can?t won?t travel or move, then should that school change its entire ethos to suit a child being raised an atheist ? and the answer is no they shouldn?t.??????????

Did you not read my opinion? I am NOT, and in NO WAY SUGGESTED the school should change it's entire ethos AT ANY POINT in my discussion. I am saying that a child should not be told to pray. Teaching them Christian values is totally acceptable - honesty, truthfulness, charity etc, but these are not exclusively Christian values, they are found across the faiths. there is a difference in teaching a child the value of honesty (cry wolf etc) and TELLING them to pray.

Withdrawing the child from RE is a knee-jerk reaction - I consider it to be an essential part of any child's education, and teaching them about religions is no way a problem and should be promoted. The problem is telling children to perform religious rituals.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 21/07/2011 16:05

But praying is part of the Christian ethos at the school is it not?

I am amazed this is only just becoming an "issue" really, has she not taken part in prayers daily since starting at the school? I went to a community primary but we still said a prayer in assembly each day - nobody was forced to pray, just expected to sit still and quiet whole others did.

GrimmaTheNome · 21/07/2011 16:06

Withdrawing the child from RE is a knee-jerk reaction - I consider it to be an essential part of any child's education, and teaching them about religions is no way a problem and should be promoted. The problem is telling children to perform religious rituals.

Spot on!

Teach children about prayer by all means; if its a faith school then its not unreasonable to have prayers in assembly (the issue of why the heck all state schools are still supposed to have a collective act of worship is a whole other wormcan). But telling small children to perform specific religious acts at home - way out of line.

GrimmaTheNome · 21/07/2011 16:08

nobody was forced to pray, just expected to sit still and quiet whole others did.

there's the big difference - prayers in school don't require active participation, just politeness. Telling a kid to pray at home necessitates she does the praying.

soverylucky · 21/07/2011 16:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sirzy · 21/07/2011 16:11

But we don't know what was said do we? I would love to hear the teachers pov coz I would place money on it being very different.

It could have been as part of a whole school/ class assembly where the children were all told - "x is poorly, perhaps you could all say a prayer for her tonight" that could easily be interpreted in the way the op mentioned by a 5 year old but is in no way an innapropriate suggestion to be made in a c of e school

porcamiseria · 21/07/2011 16:13

my point is that a child should not be forced in to religious practice in schools, irrelevant of which religion it is.

BUT SHE GOES TO A FUCKING C OF E SCHOOL, ugh you are annoying me now

soverylucky · 21/07/2011 16:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MissClueless · 21/07/2011 16:14

YANBU. I went to a C of E school myself, being none of religion. We learnt about Christianity, Hinduism, Jewish Life etc. This did not mean we were to go home to continue with our school studies. I went on a Jewish trip, where we went for a meal in a Halal restaurant. Its all experience and learning new things about different religion. However, i teacher did not then tell us to go home and only eat Halal meat, and not mix different types of food during meals. I agree, the child is able to make up his/her own mind once understanding all aspects of religion.

tabulahrasa · 21/07/2011 16:32

But teaching them about different religions is religious studies, teaching them how to follow a religion is religious instruction.

Religious education can be either or both.

Religious instruction is part of a faith school's ethos and often part (occasionally all) of what is taught in religious education as well.

NorfolkNChamberOfSecrets · 21/07/2011 16:39

Please read my post again. I said withdrawal from COLLECTIVE WORSHIP not RE.

skybluepearl · 21/07/2011 16:45

the clue to this is that she is in a Cof E school. what do you expect? Her school will have to touch upon other religions too to give a balanced education. can't see the problem at all

exoticfruits · 21/07/2011 16:53

I think that all the parent needs to do is point out that some people like to pray at bedtime-it isn't obligatory! The teacher may well say 'you should be in bed by ........' or 'you should be eating 5 a day' or anything at all-it doesn't mean that you have to do it!
I would even question whether a 5 yr old the teachers message 100% correct. I got some pretty strange messages from my 5yr old and I dread to think what messages the school got about home sometimes!

Ormirian · 21/07/2011 16:54

Oh lordy lord!

I read the title and thought it was a Rapture sort of scenario Grin

seeker · 21/07/2011 17:16

People are talking about children being free to make up their own minds. I agree - that's one of the things religious education is for. But this child was not being encouraged to make up her own mind - she was being taught how to be a Christian and even given homework!

I jsut cant understand why anybody finds this acceptable.

Cocoflower · 21/07/2011 17:18

Its acceptable

because...

its a Faith school! Clue is in the tittle.

Tsk, homework in a school, madness.

squeakytoy · 21/07/2011 17:20

I went on a Jewish trip, where we went for a meal in a Halal restaurant. Its all experience and learning new things about different religion

You didnt learn very much did you Grin

seeker · 21/07/2011 17:23

So any child who goes to a faith school, for whatever reason, is fair game for conversion? It's OK for teachers to evangelize in lesson time? If the child was a Muslim, or a Sikh, would it be OK to say "go home and pray to a Christian God?"

exoticfruits · 21/07/2011 17:25

It wasn't homework! No one is going to ask her about it. I expect that most of the class never mentioned it at home!
It is a faith school. You can withdraw the DC if you feel strongly ,but I don't see why the school should change -the fact they are the only school is not their fault.
I bet their policy on worship is quite clear in the prospectus and if you went into school it could be handed to you. It shouldn't come as a surprise!

Cocoflower · 21/07/2011 17:26

Its a faith school. It what is says on the tin.

Maybe I should have expected all those Muslims not to offend me with their relgious ways when we lived in the Middle East.

I mean, I know we choose to live in Muslim country and we were quite aware of the practices and culture but really they should have shut up and even considered stopping all religious activity to suit us. How dare they!

exoticfruits · 21/07/2011 17:29

If it is a faith school the Muslim, Sikh etc would know. I expect they would withdraw from the lessons. Jehovah Witnesses certainly do-worship, RE the lot.