My 5 year old niece was told to go home and pray

[freyjasauntie]

I am really upset that my 5 year old niece was told by her school teacher to go home and pray at bedtime. Although she goes to a C of E school, this is due to logistics of living in the country, and the school are aware that she is being raised atheist, (she was enrolled as such) with a view to letting her decide her own path when she is ready to understand what that entails.

If a Muslim teacher had told her girls to go home and wear hijab, there would be uproar, but it seems to be accepted that schools can promote Christian ideology. I have no problems with my niece being taught about Jesus, about being kind to each other, about truth telling and other so called Christian Values (which can be found in almost any religion) but I strongly object to her being told to give up something for Lent (she had no idea why she should do so), and to pray at bedtime.

Religious Education should be EDUCATION, as a qualified RE teacher, I have always presented all world religious as equally valuable, but there is a real difference between education and what I believe is insidious indoctrination.

Blu i didnt have any money and had to leave friends and family to do it. I was just realistic.

'have you experienced the (absent) public bus service in parts of rural Norfolk, that would enable you to send a 5 year old 'out of area'? maybe 30 miles away to the nearest non-faith primary???'

nope, but I grew up in the north west of Scotland where pupils routinely travelled 40 miles to get to any school...

Of course it's not the same freedom of choice that someone has who lives in a city, but it is still a choice.

and some of us are trying to explain why it isn't satisfactory to have a faith school as the only available choice

If you live in a small rural area, then there is only likely to be one school, and generally yes, it will be attached to the local church too.. because the last time I checked, this is still England, and as such, the majority of people may not be fanatical church-goers, but are still Christians.

We moved area's for dd's education.Was horrendous but we did it.

Why not? People move to be nearer to the shops, train stations, the sea, a job, to get a guest bedroom..

Why is it so shocking to move for your childs education which is far more important than many other reasons people move?

I did a discussion with the school when my son was called to account in from of the class for saying he didnt believe in God (in a history lesson?). For some reason it was deemed appropriate to challenge him on his lack of belief and he was quite upset by it. I pointed out that they wouldnt have dreamed of challenging the belief or a hindu or muslin. They quite rightly apologised.

It is the parents right in law. They can be removed. If it is the only school-the parent can exercise their right for their DC not to take part.
Your rights as a parent can be found here
Since it is a faith school, and can hardly be held responsible for the lack of other schools, they are quite clear about their policy. If parents took up the option, the DCs who were opted out wouldn't be alone.

Do kids still have prayers in assembly? We used to, and it wasn't a religious school or anything.

I have said to the school I would expect my children to participate in all activities of the school. I expect them to stand respectfully in religious services, it is good manners, I just dont expect them to have to pray (they can pray if they want to, its up to them). DS2 was chosen to read the lesson at the christmas carol service. I dont have a problem with this and the school didnt either.

Inmy area ALL the schools are C of E there would have been no choice for my son and we're atheist.
Perhaps luckily (???) he will now be going to a special needs school so I won't have to put up with them confusing him with their religious crap.

YANBU

You don't pay your taxes to fund such crap being put into your children's minds, especially when they have no choice but to go to that school.
It's a state run school so it should be illegal to encourage one religion.

If christians want to do this to their kids they should fund their own school.

I am constantly amazed that Christians seem to have to right to ride rough shod over everyone else. "They'll tell your chidl that the Bible is the truth and that they have to pray to a Christian god in school - but that's fine, you can just tell your child that that's not actually true when they get home"

Now what's that going to do to the home school partnership??

We live in a Christian Society. Our whole way of living is derived from Chrsitian Values including our laws. Athieism is a fairly new concept.

I am amazed at how Athiest are complaining how its mostly CofE Schools.

"If christians want to do this to their kids they should fund their own school."

Cant win can they?

You complain its the only school in the area - imagine how much more upset you'll be when you realise you have to pay for it too!

I should think it does it a lot of good seeker-leads to interesting discussions at meal times and a lot healthier to know there are lots of different beliefs and the DC is free to hear them all-and ultimately free to decide for themselves. I would say it is much better to hear them when young, I have yet to meet anyone converted to Christianity by an assembly or RE lesson, than to meet it for the first time when older and have it as exciting and different.

I am assuming all those that are "atheists" and are insisting that their children do not take part in ANY of the faith schools activities that involve religion.. including christmas, easter, and any other time where fun could also be involved....

I bet not though....

I'm not sure why my religion is deemed to be relevant here. my point is that a child should not be forced in to religious practice in schools, irrelevant of which religion it is.

but OP, you are an atheist, so you say, that isnt a religion you know...

Actually squeaky, I dont insist my children dont take part in anything EXCEPT being required to pray. It isnt a problem for me, the children or the school. Why is that a problem for you?

I understand Elastamum's points and I like how she has approached this. She will let her son particate in all activites but does not like praying but would allow her child to do so at thier own choice. You cannot ask for more than that.

Op you are the one who brought religion into it.

YANBU - (although in the end it is up to her parents what they decide, but YANBU to support and encourage them to be pissed off and to take some action)

Parents have the right to withdraw their kids from collective worship not only if they are in the situation where they have to go to a faith school because it is the only school in the village, but in any maintained school.

But this is a pain for the school and singles out the child. Better, I think, if the school absolutely has to pray that they make it clear that this is a voluntary activity for children and teachers, and they can just stand politely quiet.

In my experience schools are quite sensitive about doing this where the children in question are visibly not Christian. Muslim and Hindu children are not told that they should go home and stop praying to Mecca, or to their household shrine but instead say a christian style 'Lords Prayer'. There would be uproar.

But when the children are white (..I may be making the wrong assumptions about your family background..) there seems to be an assumption that they are basically CoE. There is an attitude (as many respondents on here have shown) that if you complain as an atheist you are making a fuss and being oversensitive. So people don't make a fuss and the church is allowed to carry on pushing its weight around.

I just dont see the issue in getting up in arms about a child praying. If you dont believe, then what do you think will happen if the child prays? Their prayers wont be answered, because without belief, prayers are just meaningless words.. so what harm would there be?

Father Christmas isnt real, but parents dont stop their kids from writing a letter to him usually.. and as the child grows up, they soon understand that he doesnt really exist.... and

Thanks Spoc.

Actually I dont mind the concept of prayer at all. I just dont like anyone being forced to pray. In an adult, this would be deemed a gross violation of their rights.

But himalaya - if the parents of a Muslim send the child to a c of e school I am sure they would understand that the lords prayer will be part of the religious practise in the school and they either discuss the issue with the child of what to do at these times (like you suggested stand quietly and respect this) or they withdraw them from the religious element all together.

MrSpoc, don't be bloody silly. Our whole way of life is partly derived from some of the Christian myths, but most of Christianity is a mishmash of older mythology in the first place. The basis of democracy comes from ancient Greek civilisation, the names we give the days of the week are from Norse mythology and the names of the months mostly (though not entirely) derived from the Roman pantheon of deities. And the stuff about being kind, being fair, not pinching your neighbour's roses or parking space or whatever, that's fairly universal to human societies. As, unfortunately, is dimwit tribalism and heirarchy.