My 5 year old niece was told to go home and pray

[freyjasauntie]

I am really upset that my 5 year old niece was told by her school teacher to go home and pray at bedtime. Although she goes to a C of E school, this is due to logistics of living in the country, and the school are aware that she is being raised atheist, (she was enrolled as such) with a view to letting her decide her own path when she is ready to understand what that entails.

If a Muslim teacher had told her girls to go home and wear hijab, there would be uproar, but it seems to be accepted that schools can promote Christian ideology. I have no problems with my niece being taught about Jesus, about being kind to each other, about truth telling and other so called Christian Values (which can be found in almost any religion) but I strongly object to her being told to give up something for Lent (she had no idea why she should do so), and to pray at bedtime.

Religious Education should be EDUCATION, as a qualified RE teacher, I have always presented all world religious as equally valuable, but there is a real difference between education and what I believe is insidious indoctrination.

"ermm I am sure we do have Christian police officers - rather a daft point imo!"

But we don;t ahve a specific Christian police force that can be called on only by Christians!

"Just because something's been there for hundreds of years doesn;t mean it's a good thing!"

Im currently watching Pochahontas with my dc.

What you said is pretty much what John Smith said to her when he wanted to take over her land and destroy her culture to suit his needs rather than respect what already exsisted.

No, because it is a Christian state school. That said, I have never encountered a state school which doesn't non Christians so I really doubt in most cases it would be an issue.

You obviously have very strong feelings against Church schools which is fine but you can't take away the choice from everyone just because you dont like it.

But if something is patently unfair the fact that it's been there for hundreds of years is not reason for it to stay! I'm not talking about ravaging an indigenous people's ancestral homelands - I'm talking about making the education system a little fairer.

Hard to believe that people believe that religion has any kind of role in education in the 21st century.
Learning about religion is one thing - but being obligated to be submerged into a faith that you don't have just because it is the only state school for miles around is absurd.
No wonder this country can never be truly progressive - it is anchored down by nonsense like this.
I recently did some work in Devon & Cornwall visiting village schools - I would say that easily 70% of the rural primaries were CofE or RC. People in rural communities simply have no choice and are lumbered with this archaic and thoroughly unsuitable situation.

"Learning about religion is one thing - but being obligated to be submerged into a faith that you don't have "

Or even a faith youdo have!

You only have to look at Northern Ireland to see tha damage that sectarian education does.

Seeker you do strike me as a someone with lots of self-entitlement.

You dont want there to be faith schools at all.
Then you will be ok about as long as you can get in but change it for your needs.
You dont want to move home, home ed or go private- so feel your entitled not too change but expect the school too for you despite you moving near to it.

You are very much a John Smith type. Leave the faith schools alone.

"Seeker you do strike me as a someone with lots of self-entitlement."

Excuse me? I'm not the one saying that I want state funded schools for members of my special club!

Let's come up with another example.

How about a state school where the first admission criterion was..let's say...a family income of more that 50,000 per annum. Or having red hair. Or being white.

All those OK too? No? Then explain to me why they are any different to a state school whose first admission criterion is being a Christian.

Lots of people love their faith schools seeker- even atheists! Every faith school I have worked in had a mix of pupils anyway- atheist, Muslims are quite common in Catholic schools etc.

I dont attend any church at all so I dont have a right to complain when I dont get into certain schools. I accept thats they way it is, the school was there before me.

And as it happens we did move area's for school- as a parent thats my responsibilty to do the best for my child not moan when I realise things are not how I want.

You keep thinking only atheists pay taxes!

Well actually Seeker I could start a thread about how unfair it is one of the local schools is Private and Boys only.

Unfair one two accounts right? Shall I demand they let my dd in for free as it suits me?

seeker, I think you've missed the point these schools weren't set up as an alternative to state schools. They were the only schools for the poor at the time. They are older than state schools.They weren't supposed to be an alternative to anything except no education.

We are in a Christian country with a Christian culture and a Christian heritage-whether people like it or not. Hospitals have chaplains, prisons have chaplains etc-it isn't just schools.

It is really very, very simple to get rid of the faith part. If all parents exercised their right to withdraw fronm the faith part there would be no one for the vicar to talk to and no one to go to church. It is pathetic to say that you can't make your DC odd-get the rest of the parents behind you. I suspect that the rest of the parents would not be behind you-they either like it or are not bothered. If mine were at a faith school, which they weren't I would vote to keep the faith part. I would want them to get all views.

No one has answered my questions.

1. Did your parents and their siblings follow your grandparent's views?
2. Did you and your siblings follow your parent's views?

In my family we have a rich spread of practising Christians, non practising Christians, agnostics and atheists,(the Christians are Cof E and methodist) and one had dabbled in eastern religions with a sort of mishmash.

If you didn't answer yes to the questions why are you expecting your DCs to follow your beliefs or lack of them? Is it a good thing for DCs to follow their parents? Why does it matter? I would particularly like to know the last one-why does it matter?

In answer to your questions no and yes. But the yes was our own choice completly and at no point forced upon us.

I agree with your post to!

It appears to me that if people disagree with their parents if they were brought up in a religion - they are 'a free thinker' -if they bring up the DC as an atheist and they find a faith they are 'indoctrinated'! (maybe they take after you and are a free thinker).

Mix in my family too. I have lived in Muslim countries, went to a Catholic school was an atheist in my teens and now am sort of non-descript- somewhere around the very liberal Christian mark I suppose. I dont really have a 'label' as such though we were all baptised a year ago.

The best I can think I am is spiritual.

My siblings- one is a different religion each week the other couldnt care less! My family wider is a mix- from atheists to vicars.

I dont get why some posters are so terrified on here of their dc being near religion and proudly tell us how they plan to 'undermine' religion and so on. Underneath the bravado it seems quite sad to read.

I think that a mix is very healthy
I think it very blinkered to say 'mummy 'the oracle' has decided-no one must dare talk to my DC about any different views because my DC is so impressionable and can't work anything out for themselves'. If they do, in the course of time decide they have a spiritual side they must have been indoctrinated'.
I would be very worried if my DCs just followed me-without question-I would much rather they thought it out for themselves.
DCs are not stupid-they are generally deep thinkers,capable of abstract discussion-if given the the chance.Have faith in them-rather than telling them and expecting them to agree.

I would also be surprised if people are so set that they are not open to the new. I am constantly changing-in 10yrs time I might respond to this question entirely differently-who knows?!

This is an debate which seems to attract positive armies of straw men. It doesn't matter how often people like me say that we want our children to be taught about religion, we just don't want them to practice any particular religion in school, it is immediately translated into "You don't want your child to have any contact with religion at all - how very silly of you" It's really annoying!

To be fair seeker you have said quite a few different things on this thread- "ban faith schools", then later; "keep them but change the admissions criteria"

Its all a bit tricky to keep track!

Don't send them to a C of E school, then. Simples!

Ah. I didn't mean to "say different things". Changing the admissions criteria surely removes the the special "faith school status" - effectively "banning" them.

Have I been inconsistent in any other way?

No becuase the school could remove the need to attend a certain church etc yet for admissons purposes still be on the understanding if you attend you will receive religious instruction.

Ban could also mean shut them down completly or privitasing.

OK. But removing the faith requirement form the admissions criteria will at least make it fair. Which is my main concern. I just don't understand how supporters of faith schools can tolerate the unfairness of the system!

There's a big difference between being informed about something and being given an instruction by an authority figure.