to think if a dog can't behave then it should be on a lead?

[RobynLou]

we live next to a small park, cutting across it takes quite a chunk off our walk to preschool, so most days me, DD1 (nearly4) and DD2(5m) go across it, DD1 walking, DD2 in the sling.

the park is doggy central, there's always one or two people there with dogs. that is of course fine, but often the owners are standing at the edge of the park while the dogs run around, we walk across and the dogs come bounding up to us.

each day this happens and each day the owners try and call the dogs away but they don't go. I'm confident the dogs wouldn't hurt us but they're intimidating and scary for DD1, and the bigger ones I also find a bit scary tbh, I've never owned a dog and a strange one running towards you and jumping up at you when you have 2 small children isn't nice.

the owners sometimes shout over things like oh she's just being friendly/she won't hurt you. aibu to think that isn't the point? If DD1 couldn't be trusted not to run up to and pester/intimidate people in the park I would follow her around like a hawk. why is behavior that wouldn't be accepted in a child seemingly acceptable in a dog?

Tanif - do you live in some Marie Antoinette-esque fantasy world where you own all you survey? Because you do a very good job of making it look like you do - and as if you've got very little respect for other people or dogs.

Tanif, I'm sorry to say this, but dog owners like you give the rest of us a bad name.

Like previous posters, we have an elderly, arthritic dog who gets HURT when over enthusiastic dogs come bounding over at high speed, while we are walking along quietly with our dogs on leads.

Rightly or wrongly, most parents these days are very wary around strange dogs and as dog owners it's up to us to ensure our dogs do not disturb, harass, or frighten other people in parks and public spaces. If they do, we shouldn't be surprised or complain when much stronger measures such as Dog control Orders are brought in which either ban dogs from certain areas or make on leash walking compulsory. And let's not forget that EVERY Council in the country now has this optional power for public land and more and more local authorities are doing just this because of public pressure. Responsible dog ownership benefits all of us.

I have a dog, a 7 year old springer spaniel border collie cross.

He has had issues with dogs all of his life (scared mainly), as a result he only ever gets off his lead when there is NOONE about and I scan the beach/field constantly for any one coming, that said he is a very well behaved dog, who responds to my command of "come on" immediately.

Whilst he has been on the lead, he has been attacked 4 times. Each time this dog has been a staffy or some form of staff cross and each time it has come to my dog, without its owner being near it and as soon as my dog grumbled (when they jump near him he doesnt like it) he has been set upon. Its broke my heart each time and I have been hurt trying to get these little bastards off him (never go for the pointy end!). My dog doesnt even attempt to defend himself (first time he couldnt as i had him muzzled he now doesnt wear a muzzle for this reason) he just stands and cries and the noise thats made is enough to make your blood run cold.

My DP now shouts at owners immediately "call your dog back" and if they dont they get " call your F dog back" he doesnt even attempt to be polite anymore after he half killed the last dog that attacked ours through kicking it. (heartbreaking but it had mine by the neck and would not leave go) we walk the dog together I am too scared to walk him on my own because its a 2 person job to deal with the situation and I generally stand and scream haha useless! Im lucky that mine will get in the car so we have a couple of beaches nearby and i tend to walk him 11pm onwards - that way he can have a run and enjoy himself without anyone being about

So YANBU

Signet2012 - that sounds really, really awful, I'm really sorry to hear about it.
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, here, but did you ever try to address your dog's fear of other dogs, ather than just keeping him away from them?
Sometime's when owners get panicky and keep their dogs away from other dogs, it can actually exacerbate their dog's fear.
It's usually a lot easier for dogs to get over being attacked than it is for owners to do so, tbh.

I should think if he's got a fear of other dogs it's for a good reason if he's been attacked so many times!
And it's not so easy for them to 'get over it' if they end up at the vet's, like my mum's old dog did when he was attacked by a staffy while he was on his lead. Staffy owner just walked off, my mum had to get her dog to the vet with deep wounds to his neck.

No, it's not always easy, but it is sometimes possible.
It can also be the case that keeping fearful dogs on leads all the time around other dogs can exacerbate their fear.

tanif, I do accept the dogs will be there, and I have never snatched up DD, although I've felt like doing it on occasion. If DD ever went around chasing the dogs and shouting at them I would make sure I was next to her all the time so I could stop her before it started (she doesn't do that btw!) it would be unacceptable for a child to harass a dog, so why is it acceptable for a dog to harass a child?

I don't see why we should walk further and not visit our nearest park because some dogs won't leave us alone.

If your dog is bothering people then it needs to be better trained or you need to be nearer to it imo.

A dog ran up to us today, as usual, and wouldn't leave us alone. I said to the owner "I'm sure it's just being friendly but your dog makes us really uncomfortable when it won't leave us alone" she said "sorry, but there's nothing I can do when he see someone he wants to play with" I left it at that as I didn't want to risk an argument in front of the DDs...

Tchootnika - I agree with you on that one, when he was very young he tended to pee up people in excitement, so i always kept him on a lead as although he was cute and lovely most people dont like being wee'd on :) I was ok til he got attacked the first time, then i have to admit i did tend to go oh my god there's a dog, think we will go this way and avoid it. He is alot better now as I let my partner hold the lead and the dog is much more confident about his role I guess and he does feed off me so I make a concious effort to relax. He is also much more relaxed OFF his lead but I darent keep him off a lead permanently. the only time he really reacts if a dog comes nose to nose and then to his bum but i wouldnt even call it a growl, its more of a grumble, we did wonder why it seems to be our dog they go for, as it is a odd little pace round him they do before jumping on him. I wondered if it was anything to do with him being too young when I got him if he missed some kind of socialisation within the pack and therefore misreads or has a stance that is misread? i dont know im not a dog mind reader but it does seem odd they always go for my dog when he doesnt really seem to do anything.

The last time he got attacked was the worst, his neck was ripped open and I was too badly bit when I stupidly got in the way of teeth! (they always go for his floppy ears and i tried to hold them to his head and also to keep my dog still so we could aim the kicks at the right place.

He did get over it pretty quickly and was more concerned about licking my wounds than his own bless him.

YANBU at all.

When they say "she's just being friendly", it seems like they're telling you to stop being so unreasonable and just let the dog jump on you!

Occasionally you get a dog owner who will call the dog away, but even then usually the dog takes no notice and the owner doesn't do anything else.

Signet2012 - thank you for replying, and being so down to earth. (I must admit, I wasn't expecting a very positive response, so thank you again!)
FWIW, it might be worth getting advice from a very good behaviourist - a shame that it's you left in position of maybe doing this, but perhaps a good idea if it means eventually having a less fearful dog?
What you and he have been through does sound really, really awful.
My dog's been set upon a few times, but nothing compared to what your poor boy has been through, and it's horrific.
IME dogs are much more psychologically/emotionally resilient than we give them credit for, though, and it might still be possible to gently re-introduce him to other dogs.
(And btw, when I suggest talking to a behaviourist, I'm not suggesting that you've done anything wrong, just that (s)he might be able to suggest good strategies for him starting to interact with other dogs again. Obviously it's not something most owners would go blithely skipping into without a care.)
(And apologies also if you've already tried this, or it's not an option.)

Oh, and OP - apologies for hijack of thread. And on behalf of the silly woman in the park today. We're not all like that...

YANBU, and I speak as a dog lover with a dog loving DD. Many dog owners are lovely and responsible and will call their dog back immediately if they see it bounding towards a small child. I try and reciprocate by teaching DD that dogs are usually safe and friendly but we can only say hello to them if we have first asked their owner if it is OK.

But 'she's just being friendly' is meaningless gibberish. If you are only 90cm tall and can't speak all dogs are potentially big and scary. If your dog will come when called and you are paying close attention to them then letting them off a lead in a park is fine. Otherwise they really shouldn't be.

The other excuse I hate is dogs that come up barking and their owners say something stupid like 'Oh it's because your baby is in a sling', to which I always reply 'so you've trained it to attack infants then?'

yeah we have thought about it - not much where i live in way of it except a policeman who goes mental when he sees people with dogs that are treat like babies (I Dont treat him like a baby but he is allowed on the settee for a stroke and I play ball and such with him, he is very spoilt) , currently reintroducing him to "known nice dogs" outside of his terriotry and it seems to be working, he is alot happier off his lead.

we also introducing him to a little dog which is a puppy and although he is terrifed at how quick it is, he condones it and seems to understand its only a puppy if thats possible! Cos im sure an older dog wouldnt get away with it!

I never ever let my goldfish off the lead. :).

Seriously-I have a female rescue lurcher who is really bad around small dogs.She got attacked by one (she was also quite badly abused but that's another story).

I muzzle her and she is walked on a lead. She is only ever let off the lead late at night,but still muzzled.

I get fed up by irresponsible dog owners that don't recall their dogs, and they come bounding up to mine,while she is growling and snapping, saying that their dog wants to play,Well mine actually wants to eat yours,fuckwit. And I have to walk her at quiet times.

Even worse is the Betterware guy that comes to the door with his dog to collect his catalogue. How stupid can you get? His dog's on MY dog's territory, next time I think I will let her eat it :)

We don't buy Betterware anymore