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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what do you think of father's for justice

127 replies

AuntiePickleBottom · 10/07/2011 21:25

www.fathers-4-justice.org/hunger4justice.php

having supported DH in his fight to see his DD, i can understand why some father's want to take action.

at the same time i can understand why some mother's refuse access

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 10/07/2011 22:39

no dont play the biology women carry baby as ace card
women are not biologically predetermined to be better parents just because they get up the nelly and have babies.ridiculous notion

AuntiePickleBottom · 10/07/2011 22:41

VioletV, it shouldn't be about who carried the baby it's about whats the best for the baby/child

OP posts:
worraliberty · 10/07/2011 22:41

Violet going through the pain of child birth doesn't give the women any more 'dibs' on the child than the man FFS.

VioletV · 10/07/2011 22:42

Where have I said women are better parents?! End of the day we're also not walking wombs to give birth for men who can fuck off when they like, cheat etc and then expect to get custody. Bullshit if a mother isn't suitable to have custody of her child then fair enough until then she should have full custody.

stillfrazzled · 10/07/2011 22:43

TBH, although I support shared parenting to the hilt, whenever I see F4J stories I tend to think that those specific men must have done something to make their partner deny access, and the demos etc are more about outrage and control than genuine love for the children.

I might well be wrong, but there have been some pretty bad examples along those lines. It's a bit like NOTW and journalism - a toxic brand, these days.

Truckrelented · 10/07/2011 22:43

That sounds like equality.

worraliberty · 10/07/2011 22:44

And women don't cheat Violet?

There are plenty of women who have cheated on their partners and then got custody of the kids and kept the home etc.

scottishmummy · 10/07/2011 22:44

oh do ease up on the wimmin suffer,carry precious cargo and all the pain
unlike men who dont know half of it
yawn de yawn

troisgarcons · 10/07/2011 22:44

bollox. having a womb does not make a good mother

AuntiePickleBottom · 10/07/2011 22:45

if having a womb makes a women a good mother...social service wouldn't have jobs

OP posts:
VioletV · 10/07/2011 22:48

Worral is this thread about mothers for justice or fathers?! I'm refering to a comment on page 1 go back and read it.

Scottish I have no idea wtf you've just said.

Troisgarcons Where on this entire thread has anyone said having a womb makes you a good mother?!

scottishmummy · 10/07/2011 22:51

not the the women are goddesses who bring forth baby after months of pain and suffering.so hence they must have a deep connection and how could any man comment when he hasnt borne a child

worraliberty · 10/07/2011 22:53

I've read it Violet and you'r still talking shit.

DitaVonCheese · 10/07/2011 22:57

Mothers don't get automatic custody (called residence these days) Hmm or they didn't last time I worked in family law anyway.

The assumption is that the primary caregiver will get residence, for fairly obvious reasons, and this tends to be the mum in our society, particularly when DC are small.

Ime the dads quite often have unreasonable ideas of how much childcare they actually do - you have no idea how many dads claimed they did 50-50 childcare and should therefore have shared residence when what they meant was they did 50-50 childcare when they were home so bath time twice a week Confused

Otoh I cannot imagine the pain of hardly seeing your children.

VioletV · 10/07/2011 22:57

Ok Scottish I've tried to figure out wtf you're trying to say there. First of all reread what I put. I'm referring to getting automatic custody of a child when the "family unit" has broken. Naturally the child should go to the mother unless there is a reason she is unfit (FOR WHATEVER REASON) to have the child. How is pointing out a mothers bond ie carrying a child and giving life to them, pulling the ace card?!

Worral Oh do fuck off. There's a love.

NevermindtheNargles · 10/07/2011 22:59

I always supported what f4j were trying to do, I know a couple of good dads whose ex wives have tried to make it as difficult as possible for them to see their kids out of sheer spite. Just because someone is a shit husband doesn't make them a shit dad. Then one of their more prominent members came to work with me. Fucking hell, I have never met such a mysoginist. He used to regularly spout made up statistics about how no father has ever killed his children, but mothers do it all the time, and various other nonsense. He was a bully, and I found him very threatening and made sure I was never left alone with him. I have lost a lot of sympathy for the organisation since then that they allow him to represent them - I certainly wouldn't have wanted him around my child.

scottishmummy · 10/07/2011 23:02

youre assuming motherhood/pg imbues with deeper more qualitative bond.not necessarily. and it is one of those daft things folk say "well when men have babies and suffer as we do...then they can talk"

ability to have baby is not in itself affirming proof of being a good or better parent

VioletV · 10/07/2011 23:02

DitaVonCheese Is there any reason why the mothers would get residence over the fathers?!

Truckrelented · 10/07/2011 23:06

95% of resident parents are mothers, so I don't think there are hordes of resident Dads out there.

I'll ask again if the father stopped you from seeing your children and the courts were ineffective what would posters do? Accept it?

VioletV · 10/07/2011 23:08

Scottish a young child will have more of a bond with their mother. As Dita has said above, mothers will get custody or residence as she put it because especially when they are small. It's got nothing to do with the fact who is the better parent.

scottishmummy · 10/07/2011 23:08

well certainly not don a joke shop cossie,tights and mask.for fear of looking silly and attracting all the bampots of the day...

smallmotherbigheart · 10/07/2011 23:09

Oh FFS, at the end of the day the whole problem with any of these so called solutions "which take into consideration the childs needs" is that they actually dont. I know a lady whose son, who is now 10 years old has refused to see his father since the age of five, only because he recalls his dad pulling a knife out to his mum as well as other violent events. Unfortunately for him, his cries were ignored and was deemed insignificant because he "wasn't old enough to decide for himself".... so I rule out any suggestion that any of it is fair. His cries have only recently been listened to after years of his mum bribing him to attend contact centres so that she wouldnt get any hassle from his solicitor!!

Someone mentioned previously that if parents spent half the energy they do fighting on actually attending to their child's needs, the situation would probably be more harmonious. I don't naively accept that these things actually work, in actual fact most of the time they make things worse and it becomes about how much the parents resent each other. In other words, totally counter productive to the needs of the child.

Perhaps instead of using all these assumptions, we should insist that child access should be judged case by case instead of glossing the whole thing over with futile "solutions" which do not bear any respect to the child what so ever.

We all know shitty dads and shitty mums, theres no use slagging off one in favor of the other

LineRunner · 10/07/2011 23:09

My ex-H walked out on me and our two very young children. He only sees them two days every month. He pays minimal child support, way below what he should. I am scared of him. He is known to the Domestic Abuse Unit.

When our children have time with him he asks them to take their child support with them to pay for their meals.

Despite all this I wish he would give his children more time.

He has consistently refused. Twice in family court to a judge - who just shrugged.

He should join 'Fathers for Convenience'. And he should be ashamed.

Fathers who are genuinely fighting to see more of their children through no fault of their own have my sympathy. I would hate to be in their shoes. The family courts are a fuck up.

scottishmummy · 10/07/2011 23:09

no.you speak in definitives as if opinion is fact.
likely to have bond,yes. will have - no not automatically

maypole1 · 10/07/2011 23:12

Yes because the majority of of primary carers are mums.

If a father tried to stop me seeing my child I would make sure my house was I order before calling the odds ie making sure I was supplying them money wise making sure I was shacked up with a random partner and had suitable home then I would apply for contact and if I was not the primary carer when married I would not be applying for custody full stop