To consider retraining as a barrister?

[princessglitter]

I am a teacher in middle management with a fairly secure, reasonably satisfying career. I have always dreamed of a career in the law. Originally I considered becoming a solicitor, doing a conversion course and going down the LPC route.

However, at the last minute, I lost my nerve and pulled out of my college course. The idea of that amount of debt was horrifying to me.

I trained as a teacher, but has always felt unfulfilled if I'm honest. As I've got older, the idea of retraining as a barrister has become more appealing, but I am acutely aware that so many fall by the wayside. I have secured a mini-pupillage this summer, which I am extremely excited about. I am also going to apply for vacation schemes at solicitors' firms to enable me to make an informed decision.

I do have a strong academic background and an Oxbridge 2.1 - but I know that that alone will not be enough.

Am I unreasonable to take a risk (with my husband's support) and consider a career in the law? Possibly as a barrister, but I intend to research this thoroughly with some real experience in both areas and different specialisms.

interesting thread

2.1 from Oxford here, exhibitioner, law degree - did the voluntary stuff, FRU, mini-pupillages, 4 As at A-level, BVC scholarship from Lincoln's Inn ... couldn't for the life of me get a pupillage. That was 10 years ago. As I understand it, things have only got worse. I don't think I interview that badly, but the level of the competition was obscene. Maybe if I had got a first, plus done my BCL?

The two guys I know from college who got tenancies were a league beyond in terms of intellectual ability. One got the second highest result in the University for law finals. The other came first.

Amateurish, that is a textbook example of the misuse of the word obscene. It is the tough competition which makes the Bar so bright. Whether we want so many bright people to use their brains for the purposes of the bar is another issue.

From what I've read so far, the Bar is becoming increasingly inaccessible for all but a tiny minority. The barristers I know from college graduated with 2.1s, but that was a few years ago now.

I remember someone (40ish) from a leading chambers saying that she got a good 2.1 from Oxbridge back in the early1990s and gained pupillage/tenancy but wouldn't have had a chance today judging by the outstanding academic success of more recent pupils.

You are right, princessglitter, and I don't like to think what the next wave of successful barristers will be like. Greedy moneygrubbers with big debts to pay.

babybarrister - the behind the counter court staff at Willesden are IMO the worst of any court I have been to. But at least the court isn't too far from the station

I have a non-Oxbridge LOW 2.1 (62%) and got pupillage at tenancy at a London commercial/civil set 18m ago. Only one out of 4 of those at a similar call to me gor a first (and that was in Engligh lit...).

Sorry for typos in the above

I have learnt that lawyers love to talk about themselves and that law is not as soft as it was. OP, don't be discouraged, there are more demanding careers (physics, cryptography, Chinese literature...).

yesmaam no, that honour must go to Brentford county court counter staff who have not yet worked out the mechanics of picking up the goddam phone.

No, Willesden are far and away the winners in the Useless Stakes. Brentford try but are not in their class.

I don't know if it's any worse now that it was and there were always many more solicitors than barristers. Also remember that there has been grade inflation at univesrity. In my 2/1 I was almost the best in just about all subjects and only one person, female, got a first in our year over 20 years ago. I am not saying my 2/1 now would be a first but when I was at university a third of people only got 2/1 and above. My daughters' 2/1s whilst also pretty good are what 2/3rd of people get.

I work with lots at the bar who are principally at the High Court or indeed just advising from rather nice chambers.

When I went to Bar school, it cost £4,000. I am now told it is nearer £18,000. It took me two years to establish income. I honestly don't see how anyone can do it now without massive savings or enormous scholarship.

I am all for following your dreams, but you will need to think thru the financial implications very seriously.

If you are very good the chambers pay (and law firms for solicitors). You don't pay a penny. My daughter's fees were covered 100% for 2 years plus an annual payment to live on of £7k for each of the two years. You might argue you are foolilsh to do the bar or solicitor courses without that sponsorhip and a tenancy (or for solicitors training contract) lined up.

Only the top of the top London sets will fund you well through pupillage. I don't know how many would pay for bar school but wouldn't have thought many would. To get that type of pupillage you would have to be the absolute creme de la creme.

Pupillage interview. The rest are pretty accurate as well!

It is impossible to line up tenancy before you even start at law school, Xenia. It doesn't work like that.

Heheh as well as gossipy and slightly immature I am also [supposedly] lacking in intellectual stimulation by choice of specialism. Fuck me, if I am now on mat leave and therefore a SAHM I may as well sell my brain to scientific research.

I recall a friend from law school, who went to an excellent city firm, remarking that it was amazing that I advised clients. She had yet to meet one and at the time was 2 years pqe.

I also thought I may recognise some ladies here in RL, I am the one that has been pregnant for 2 years in London Mags and Crown Courts. I was asked my security: "haven't you had that baby yet?!" was my second pregnancy, they were referring to my first. Got told: "You are like that Sarah Beeny, always up the spout" nice.

Gossipy and slightly immature-you betcha, face it, who doesn't scan a case summary with glee when the facts become increasing obscure.

by ignore all above grammatical errors. I am a moron. Is why I do crime.

You mean pupillage, Xenia. No chambers would offer tenancy to someone who hadn't even done the BVC (or whatever it is called now) yet. Just as solicitors offer a training contract not a permanent contract of employment.

NO chambers will pay for your bar school. What they may do is allow you to "draw down" some of your pupillage award i.e. have it early. I had that option with my chambers but chose to save it all for my pupillage year (it was £30k so pretty good) and anyway I had already done by BVC by then although they did give me an option of using it to help with my masters fees.

It is standard practice for the big firms to pay GDL and LPC fees + maintenance to their future trainees but chambers don't really offer anything similiar for people doing the BPTC. If someone gets a pupillage lined up at a top chambers before they start their course (rare to get at that stage) they might be allowed to draw some of their pupillage award early but they won't receive extra funding specifically for their fees and maintenance. However, the top pupillage awards are about 60k, compared to approx 40k pa as standard for City firms (Sullivan & Cromwell now have the highest starting salary for 1st year trainees at 50k), so if the prospective pupil can access some of it early that certainly helps. There are inn scholarships as well for those who are good enough and lucky enough, but they are also hard to come by. Funding your professional training is much much harder if you take the bar route!

Oops Xpost with Tablevamp