To consider retraining as a barrister?

[princessglitter]

I am a teacher in middle management with a fairly secure, reasonably satisfying career. I have always dreamed of a career in the law. Originally I considered becoming a solicitor, doing a conversion course and going down the LPC route.

However, at the last minute, I lost my nerve and pulled out of my college course. The idea of that amount of debt was horrifying to me.

I trained as a teacher, but has always felt unfulfilled if I'm honest. As I've got older, the idea of retraining as a barrister has become more appealing, but I am acutely aware that so many fall by the wayside. I have secured a mini-pupillage this summer, which I am extremely excited about. I am also going to apply for vacation schemes at solicitors' firms to enable me to make an informed decision.

I do have a strong academic background and an Oxbridge 2.1 - but I know that that alone will not be enough.

Am I unreasonable to take a risk (with my husband's support) and consider a career in the law? Possibly as a barrister, but I intend to research this thoroughly with some real experience in both areas and different specialisms.

No no - not PSL not low paid famly or legal aid.... go where the money, fun and intellectual challenge in. Avoid women ghettos liks PSL lawyers on low pay with no prospects. Let's shunt 80% of the men into those roles and leave women making up 80% of equity partners in the £800k - £1m a year firms and the £1m a year club at the bar etc. or whatever it now is in the recession.

Xenia

Being an equity partner is my idea of the first circle of hell!

xenia I agree in theory. I qualified in commercial law and ended up practising criminal law - but then I am gossipy and slightly immature . It was fun and I have no regrets but I am grateful that DH earns several times more than me.

If you want money xenia speaks sense, but the OP has indicated that she is interested in crime, family and med neg, which are notoriously poorly paid. And have about as much in common with a corporate M&A type lawyer as they do her current job.

I feel pretty sure I don't want to stick with what I'm doing now - but will carefully weigh up all my options.

For the poster (sorry can't remember who) who suggested I go to a Magistrates' Court this summer - I have actually spent a lot of time observing proceedings in Magistrates Courts. I prepare my students for the Magistrates' court Mock trial Competition and as part of that I took them to court to watch proceedings. Lots of driving offences were the order of the day. Didn't put me off.

Would just say - Teenieleak's description of life of a trainee didn't reflect my experience. Possibly mine was unusual but while a trainee at a v. good city firm I got loads of client contact and responsibility. I suspect being a trainee at a smaller out of London firm would give you the same.

Xenia IME the fact is that most women lawyers just don't want to spend as much time at work as being an equity partner on £800-£1m would require. They'd rather go home at a decent hour and see their children/DH/television every so often. (Same applies to many men of course, though not quite as many as women).

As long as a job requires ridiculous hours, you'll find women choose to turn away from it to spend more time at home. Not because they have to due to useless DHs - but because they want to.

You clearly are an exception, there are others out there and you are right to encourage them, but please at least acknowledge that most women (and many men) don't want that sort of life!

xenia you seem bizarrely hung up on the idea that intellectually stimulating and highly paid go hand in hand. why?

what about human rights law? public law? international law? truly challenging and hotly debated - at many different levels, and frequently in the public eye. How often do you see highly-paid corporate lawyers argue about legal advice on a complex financial derivative on newsnight? How often do you see them writing truly stimulating articles in the academic and wider press?

the kinds of work I list are right at the bottom when it comes to pay - and, of course, most human rights and international lawyers don't make it onto Newsnight - but to suggest that their work isn't academically interesting - and that the highly paid corporate stuff is, is just clap trap.

I have been a lawyer for 20 years - the first 5 as a barrister and the remainder as a solicitor.

A 2:1 from Oxbridge is fairly standard as is ambition, enthusiasm etc

It is a simple fact that there is not enough work to go around and if you are starting out now the chances are you will not succeed - that is nothing to do with the person but the climate

Sorry to be harsh but you need to be realistic

If I'm not realistic after this thread I don't think I ever will be!

Am going to look at vac schemes at some NW Solicitors' firms too.

Two things:-

1. Without meaning to sound harsh the good commercial firms cherry pick new lawyers with fantastic results from the best universities about two years in advance. They are harsh to get into and harsher to work for. They are not full of intellectual types - they are full of money orientated, long working types. One does not equate to the other, and I know many people who would be massively insulted by the assumption.

1. I know fabulous barristers not earning the figures quoted. These barristers deal with human rights cases and are silks and could wipe the floor with commercial barristers. Also, the figures you are quoted are generally within the magic circle in London. Let's be realistic, you're based in the NW. I know a few good commercial law firms in NW, but you're be a good 15+ years from that stage.

OP Let me know whereabouts in the NW you are. I'll see if anything is around in the chambers (also chambers gigs are great for networking - I know DH has a couple of free tickets for a few of them). Or if you are interested in law firms I can see whereabouts has trainee slots or even work experience to combine with your mini pupillage in the summer.

Sorry - the figures quoted by others.

reindeer - I nearly included a list of people - well known people, some of whom I have been lucky enough to work with - who would be insulted by xenia's ridiculous assumption about money and intellectual stimulation. and there are many more not so well known ones too.

Much as I love Xenia, she does often give the impression of being a lawyer - I know because lots of people have told me that she is one

I have a lot of admiration for her, but whatever it is she does to earn her money, it isn't law.

i often wondered if she was. but this thread has certainly cleared that one up.

Check out the Pupillage thread on Student Room - lots of very intelligent people there desperately trying year after year to get pupillages.

Xenia's assertion that commercial stuff is more intellectually challenging than legal aid is laughable. I'm 1 year PQE and work in legal aid asylum and immigration, and I get to do considerably more interesting and challenging stuff than my friends working in City firms. And being another Oxbridge grad- this thread seems to be full of them- I know plenty. When we were training, they spent most of the time putting bundles together. I, however, drafted human rights based representations to the Home Office. I'm still doing the more interesting stuff now. My job is quite simply intellectually more difficult and stimulating than theirs.

She is however correct that the money is bad. And worse, legal aid is dying on its feet. There are a few areas which will survive, such as care, but some won't. Care law is also incredibly demanding, although I'd say it's mentally rather than intellectually challenging if that makes sense. I would know, as I did a seat in it. But anyway, legal aid firms barely recruit now. It won't get any better when the new Bill passes. It's a lot harder to get a TC than it was even a few years ago, I was lucky to get mine in 2007 before it all went down hill. I also got my LPC funded through a scheme to train legal aid lawyers, but that unfortunately doesn't exist anymore. So you'll be paying out a lot.

If you're interested in legal aid, might be more realistic to go the ILEX route. It will take longer than a TC. But the thing is, there really aren't many TCs at the moment. I don't mean to put you down OP, you might be totally wonderful, but you can't get a TC if nobody is offering one, iyswim. The only legal aid firm I know of that offer legal aid contracts in the north west is Glaisyers. They're recruiting now to start in 2013.

(Incidentally, the GDL is ass boring. It was like doing 20 GCSEs in a year. Those with an intellectual interest in law found that particularly difficult to deal with, because there's no time for anything remotely stimulating. You're there to be spoon fed the answer to allow you to pass your exams. That isn't a reason not to do it btw. If you really do want to be a solicitor or barrister then it's a necessary evil, just be aware of what to expect).

That thread actually just makes me want to be a part of the highs, the lows, the excitement...I just love it!

If I was outstanding in my GDL, did lots of voluntary (relevant) work etc, possibly, I may be considered for interview by one of the less prestigious sets?

I have a 2.1 but was also an Exhibitioner(Scholarship for performance in first year exams - 4 marks off a first!!!) of my college, with a number of collection prizes for first class performance in college examinations. I have the requisite 4 As at A Level and an S Level extension paper Distinction. I don't think many distinctions were actually handed out in the whole country. I know that is NOTHING special in this field AT ALL and I am old and burdened with offspring etc etc.

All I want is a chance. Even if I fail.

RB (feel rude saying your full name!) have messaged you :)

princessglitter It might be worth looking around for volunteer advocacy schemes and other pro bono work for your CV too. I appeared in front of a deputy district judge defending people facing repossession and rent arrears eviction cases as a volunteer advocate under a scheme organised by the local council. That really did make a difference to people as they came to court without a clue how the system worked at risk of losing their home. It wasn't necessary to be a lawyer as you were given the necessary training and most of the time the cases turned on factual issues.

If you are near Manchester, for example, you could volunteer with the Personal Support Unit which helps people navigate the court process
www.thepsu.org.uk/

Sorry here is the link www.thepsu.org.uk

Yabu read this thread before bed and had a nightmare that was back working in the City as a solicitor (shudder ). Not an easy path but if you have the funds and determination and are fully aware of the risks go for it