Bloody W**NKing Tax credits! Or Government should I say

[Hai1988]

Just had my new tax credits award and have just found out that my DH's Working tax credits are being stopped as he has already had his lot for this year, £800!!!

My DH does not have a very well payed job at all and after rent and bills we have f**K all left and the weekly income of £140 really helped that is now just over £50.

So angry We need that extra £80 a week, I know it may not sound much to some but it did make a big difference to out life's.

Who ever voted Tory I hope your happy with yourselves that now so many family's are probably gonna struggle now.

Sorry not really an aibu but really needed to vent and wondered if anyone else is suffering with tax credits this year because of the dam government.

'Lots of talk about the global economy and suchlike. I know all about economics but what you lot have to grasp is that our economy is not perfect. Much of the economic framework and regulations are created by the rich and powerful to suit their own selfish ends. Not all economic actors have equal access to capital and markets. There's much talk about certain professions paying so much due to the training and skills needed. Rather less mention of the fact that the professions are operating a monoply on who can operate in their professions and raise many unnecessary barriers to entry to protect their monopolistic abuses.'

Great post Doesbuggerall. It's incredible that belief in free market economics persists so pervasively when even the most hardcore right wing economists are now taking a long hard look at those theories in the light of recent years events.

"There's much talk about certain professions paying so much due to the training and skills needed. Rather less mention of the fact that the professions are operating a monoply on who can operate in their professions and raise many unnecessary barriers to entry to protect their monopolistic abuses"

Well if an 'unnessary' barrier is training and skills then call me old fashioned but Im all for it.

I would be quite happy, no, insist my midwife who helps my baby and I have the training and skills needed to protect our lifes in exchange for her salary.

If I need a c-section I would insist the doctor had leapt over the 'barriers' to ensure he knew what he was doing so my baby is delivered safely.

How one can fail to see why 'barriers' in the form on training & skills need to exsist is quite shocking.

unpa1dcar3r - "NMW should be liveable standing alone."

It's very easy to say that, but how can that be implemented? That's the salient point.

How much would NMW have to be so that benefits/breaks/whatever, wasn't required?

If it's a family of 2 adults and 3 children with 1 working person, what would NMW need to be in order for it to be liveable? £12/hr equates to take-home pay of £1522/mth without any other assistance, is that sufficient?

So, what about say, a single 21 y/o with no dependants, living with their parents and also stacking shelves on NMW for a living? Is it reasonable that such a position should also pay them £1522/mth after taxes? Where then is the incentive to look for something more productive or value adding as a long term career?

Or maybe we just say fine, they can choose to only ever do that job and they'll go forward knowing that it's all they'll ever need in order to have a home and a family. So what's the point in trying at school? What are the chances of getting a job on better than NMW? In fact, why would you want to bother anyway? It's all you'll ever need and you can leave school with nothing except the most basic skills and be able to perform that job.

Yes, of course we need shelf stackers and cleaners, etc, etc, but we need other occupations too. If NMW pays so much that there's no need for anyone to ever do anything other than a NMW job in order to live, then we'd be in a VERY sticky situation.

after reading all of this thread, I don't think the op is/was a troll,but she did have a very niave view point of life.........

but the main problem seems to be her mismanagement of benefit money

she has just recently noticed her payments have gone way down since she came back from holiday....obviously she has been overpaid but didn't notice the overpayment. why not???

we are on a very low income, I earn the NMW everyone here is discussing and I keep a tight rein on our spending, the op needs to start doing this too.

I think she also needs to get a job instead of complaining her payments have gone down, she seems to think she should wait for a perfect job to come along that fits in with her ds's school hours, but jobs like that are very scarce, so why doesn't she childmind/clean houses/work evenings or weekends if her dh is at home?

I can understand why posters are shouting about her sense of entitlement.....

Without 'barriers', anyone could set themselves up a an accountant, lawyer, teacher, doctor. Is that really what you are advocating?

oh, and the job I have just now on NMW is much hard physically than any previously well paid job I had, but its the only thing I can do right now

at suggestions that higher-skill jobs put barriers in place to keep themselves at higher salaries than not...

When I go to the dentist, I want him/her to know he's drilling the right tooth, and how to fix it if something goes wrong, and to ensure it's as painless as possible.
When I put a cheque into the bank, I want to know that the bank's software programmers are experienced enough to not make mistakes and have years of testing knowledge so my money transaction is smooth.
When I walk across a bridge over a motorway, I want to know that the engineer/architect that designed and planned its construction was trained so he/she doesn't design the bridge so it falls over when the wind goes over 50mph.
If I drive to pick up DD from school, I want to know that the mechanical engineers and software experts working on the airbag system design were trained in their professions.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Alibaba and I can certainly see where your going...

Quite beyond belief people suggest otherwise.

Hi Shelley boobs. It's funny but your scenario is pretty much my set up! One adult employed for a wage (me employed as an unpaid carer so get only 15p per hr, job seekers is more!), 2 dependent and very severely disabled children, eldest living at home with partner too. My Partner works around 15 hr days for a little over NMW.
Now I have a degree and have been accepted onto another higher course but cannot take it up as no childcare for SLD children. My eldest also has a degree, is on a fraction over NMW for doing an incredibly demanding job, same as her partner. It's all they could get.
The jobs simply aren't there. My partner is doing what he likes doing to an extent and that's great; I'd rather him happy in a job than miserable. He has little ambition and leaves all that malarky to me!

Yes I do think that they should be on a higher NMW and I think £12 ph is not unfair. My daughter and her partner simply cannot afford to live somewhere else. He is also highly qualified and is desperately job hunting for his field attending interviews all over the UK and Ireland but no luck so far (he's been trying for about 18 months)
If the NMW was around £12 ph then people would not be forced to rely on the tax breaks(WTC or whatever you want to call it.
It's swings n roundabouts really; if NMW was higher less would need paying in WTC.
I also do think that single people or couples with no kids should get a bigger slice of the cake regarding tax breaks, yes.
They are probably the worst off in this country if they're on NMW or just above. My daughter and her fella haven't got the proverbial pot to p*ss in yet they work looong days 12.5 hrs plus travelling (14.5 hrs) and in a very stressful job. Why should that not be recognised. Many couldn't do what they do.

Just to say to you coco (as you have mentioned me today) that although we have been able to always fix our work/domestic situation ,does not mean others are going to be able to.

My DH's shitty job actually pays very well,he supports a family of 5 comfortably.

If he lost that job and had to go on the equivalent of MW here,without heavenly intervention we would crumble.

Not,because he was refusing to take any work to keep us going,but because there simply isn't any work here that pays more.

Many people on mumsnet keep away from threads like these, because they are in the same boat and feel hurt and challenged each time "get on yer bike" type attitudes crop up.

Today ccoco your opinion is in the majority...it does not mean your suggestions are always feasible.
Your suggestions are going down well today as like minded posters have joined you...wait till those who are really beyond your helpful suggestions get involved -they will make mince meat out of you!

Just because I believe shelf-stackers should get more (than the MW today) does not equal that sooner or later brain surgeons will also be on 8-15p/h.

I believe that just because one is 'unqualified' should not make it impossible to support their family... if MW was raised many more would!

Yesterday,I talked about raising the MW wage so workers could do without Government intervention...to me ,that makes most sense.

Coco just so you know, in my statement earlier I did not mean posters on here must be rich because of their stance on this subject.

Just wanted to clear that up incase you thought that.

I actually meant the people right at the top (media controllers, monarchy, government) who use manipulative methods for population control and keep us fighting each other instead of realising they are screwing us all over.

MY suggestions aren't feasible?

Mine!

That is the most ironic post on this thread.

You don't grasp it do you?

No one has any issues with people who are disabled, carers or medically unfit to work. No-one has problems who using a NMW job as stepping stone until better comes along. Thats what we all did. 30k a jobs dont just land on your lap. No one has issue with anyone who has suffered redudancy and is seeking work.

What people have issue with is peoples poor lack of understanding economics, inabilty to grasp supply and demand, believing unqualified people deserve more than qualified people with the attitude of "screw you", those who are happy to see the rich lose their wealth as long as the come out better, those who dont think people should get skills and be trained, and most of all....

those who have NO valid reason NOT to help themseleves and act like a baby blaming everyone else thinking we should sort your lifes out for you! If you are not disabled, a carer or suffering from a medical afflication then either accept your lot and be content or sort your own issues out.

Hi all again sorry aint been on for a while been a bit busy.

Just wanted to clarify to people who think I was troll that is not true, I started this thread because as I said in previous posts that I wanted a little rant and to see who else has been affected, I did not expect this large response and to cause a large debate.

Also I was not overpayed I do no owe money or anything, the situation was that Things have changed in this new tax year because of the budget.

Also I do agree that I proberly do have a very niave look on life, as I had to grow up very quick and am still also still learning

Don't worry LDN it was another post I forget which now! :)

The cost of living has far outstripped wages. Where once what you earned could support a basic lifestyle (roof, food, utilities) it no longer does.

If everyone is to study hard and get lots of well paid jobs then who is going to do the crappy, low paid stuff? Somebody has to or we wouldn't have any kind of service industry at all. Want to get your hair cut? Sorry nobody does that any more. Want a childminder? Sorry, she can't afford to do that any more, she retrained and became a lawyer.

So, that's not the solution.
I still believe a lot of this has to do with the housing market, banks lending to artificially inflate house prices way beyond the traditional 3x salary calculation. Energy companies, just look at the profits! You cannot say we as a country get a good deal on utilities. Perhaps these elements should be addressed or income made to be able to meet these costs.

NOBODY should need top ups to their income to survive, but they do. Who should address this? Government via tax credits, companies or people in property lessening their profiteering to make life affordable?

Capitalism and the need to profit at any cost has been a major contributor to the poor financial state of those in this country on low income.

Some cannot use a NMW job as a stepping stone. For some that's as good as it gets.

Not everyone has the academic ability to study to achieve highly, and even if they did there would be vast swathes of industry that would cease to exist. Personal achievment would cause major issues with employment in these industries.

As I said earlier the more practical solution is bringing the cost of living down, not artifically raising NMW.

If NMW is as good as it gets then why? You don't have to be academic you can be skilled also. I know very well off hairdressers, graphic designers, camera men, plumbers, electrictions and builders. They are skilled.

You can't write yourself off just because your not 'academic'. That is a poor excuse.

Hate to sound like I'm doing the people with disabilities drum banging again but.... there are some people with physical and mental disabilities out there, seventy per cent of which cannot find employment. The thirty per cent that can are often in low paid work.

This is not about people with genuine reasons as already said. They DO deserve help for something completly out of their control. Thats another reason we cannot let people who are perfectly capable keep blaming others- how much more money in the pot would this generate for those in genuine need?

Look if someone wants to be a shelf stacker, but has no reason they cannot do something else, but turns around and demands 30k which more than a lot of proffesionals that is when people get angry!

30k a jobs dont just land on your lap.

Actually Coco sometimes they do because you are in the right place at the right time and may no someone already there.

believing unqualified people deserve more than qualified people with the attitude of "screw you", those who are happy to see the rich lose their wealth as long as the come out better, those who dont think people should get skills and be trained, and most of all....

I haven't read any posts on here which say or think that. Where have you got that idea from?

those who have NO valid reason NOT to help themseleves and act like a baby blaming everyone else thinking we should sort your lifes out for you!

Not too many of those on here either from what I've read. By 'we' I assume you mean that you are above all that?

I agree someone who has never worked or attempted to work for no valid reason other than that they can't be bothered to get a job or don't see why they should (the Jeremy Kylers of the world) should not receive any benefits at all but despite the popular nazi mail press there aren't too many of those either. Most have been put in that position through little fault of their own.
Let's also not forget that although the poor may receive more in benefits, they also invariably pay more one way or another as they don't have the resources to buy outright/by DD/ yearly contracts etc...and end up using highly over inflated loan companies (Provident/Brighthouse for example) to buy everyday goods. This in turn helps keep them in the poverty trap and relying ever more on benefits.
Think it was scooby who spoke the most sense so far, along with a few other (Glitter for one)

Sigh.

The post was for Joy specifically in realtion to her posts unpaid.

Read what she says- her posts are picked up by a huge amount of people all throughout the thread

Name one person who landed 30k by doing nothing?! I dont know anyone, anyone on or over that amount that didn't work hard and got into debt along the way.

Not one!

how much more money in the pot would this generate for those in genuine need?

I agree with this. For example how much more money would've been generated by that multi millionaire Cameron not claiming DLA for his son (although he was legally entitled) when now he is trying his best to cut it for all those who genuinely rely on it?

Greed starts at the top and filters down.

If everyone got (at least) a decent liveable NMW things would be a lot simpler. It worked for many years.
People earned what they earned and the cost of living was simply that; a cost of living. Maybe not excessively but manageably. Now with rising fuel prices, tax etc and all the other high costs we incur everyday it's not the same and the NMW will not cover the monthly bills.

Exactly unpaid!

Though we can see why rising the NMW would be quite unworkable (huge amount of posts see Shelly's especially & micoflight).

It is best the cost comes down.