Bloody W**NKing Tax credits! Or Government should I say

[Hai1988]

Just had my new tax credits award and have just found out that my DH's Working tax credits are being stopped as he has already had his lot for this year, £800!!!

My DH does not have a very well payed job at all and after rent and bills we have f**K all left and the weekly income of £140 really helped that is now just over £50.

So angry We need that extra £80 a week, I know it may not sound much to some but it did make a big difference to out life's.

Who ever voted Tory I hope your happy with yourselves that now so many family's are probably gonna struggle now.

Sorry not really an aibu but really needed to vent and wondered if anyone else is suffering with tax credits this year because of the dam government.

Rocky12
I am in SW London and have been surprised that comparable property in the SE is not as 'cheap' as one might think!

Even forgetting about the ridiculously wage inflation, I'm still trying to get my head around the thinking that cleaners should be paid the same as teachers.

Why the hell would anyone want to be a teacher if you could get the same money as a cleaner? Granted there would be a few (but it would be a few) people who would still want to follow their vocation, but how long do you think that would last?

Would you really expect well qualified professionals, not just teachers, to go through the stress of the training and qualifying and the daily stresses of the job just to be paid what had become the new minimum wage. The same wage as a shelf stacker or cleaner?

You'd very quickly end up with far lower quality teachers and nurses, etc, because for every good quality candidate who would still go for the teaching/nursing job at NMW, there'd be another 10 who would just say 'sod that' and go for the cleaning job on the same pay. Hence you'd end up having to accept less well qualified and less suitable candidates into professional positions.

It really is beyond ridiculous. In one fell swoop you would have taken away any incentive for 90% of people on NMW to try to improve their lot, while simultaneously killing the economy stone dead.

I'm also baffled by those who are talking about going back to the days of slums and outside toilets etc. Why do you think things have improved so much over the years?

Yes, the welfare system has allowed those less able (or willing) to provide for themselves to have a decent basic livelihood, but where do you think the money comes from to pay for it?

It comes from the fact that country has prospered from free trade, minimal regulation, specialisation and property rights. This prosperity has allowed, through taxation, the improvement of the welfare state to where it is now. It's not a 'zero sum' economy; it doesn't rely on one person being poor to make another rich, as difficult as that is to understand for some people, so why should you take away a footballers share of the wealth he's creating? It wouldn't suddenly mean there'd be more money for someone else, it would just mean a lower tax-take for the government!

Rocky
I am sure you meant 3 bathrooms...and a 'wetroom'
I agree, what is the obsession with bathrooms? Maybe it's when they all get converted into bedsits they having the plumbing ready??

Shelly- your posts are really informative, and make complete and utter sense

shellyboobs
great post.

You have said far more succinctly what I have rambled on about in a dozen posts.

Teachers and other graduates are also paying off quite a lot per month in student loan repayments.

Anyone know the story of the body parts arguing about who was most important?
The arsehole said he was. All the other body parts laughed at him so much that he went on strike and the body became poisoned with poo. Consequently the liver couldn't get rid of the toxins, the kidneys couldn't get rid of the wee, the heart was beating too rapidly and the brain was confused.
Which just shows that the you'll always find the arsehole's in the managerial positions/top posts.

of course it relies on one person being poor to make another one rich

The minimum wage shop workers/factory workers made Philip Green rich ..don't see much of his tax money in the pot though do we

I like that unpa1

Anyway,I know I am a lone voice.

I am fine with that. :)

I know the US is lucky in that it has more land on which to build.

We own land in the UK ...I hope the Government builds affordable housing on it and we get $$$

Its like debating with the same person over and over

funny that

unpa1dcar3r
Funny but I heard the brain asked for an enema and the poo was expelled!

How does 'it rely on one person being poor to make another rich?' Can you Explain the economic theory behind that assertion?

As for Philip green- well, like him or not, he isn't a tax dodger; he pays what he legally has to- like most of us. If he hadn't created the wealth he has, it wouldn't make the poor any better off you know! There would just be less money in the pot to go round. Of course, some people just don't like the fact that others are richer than them, but that's just the politics of envy- its not grounded in any rational principles! Personally I would rather the country benefits from philip green having been successful than that he hadn't- its simple economic sense. Doesn't mean I necessarily like the man!

sovery no ...I think they deserve more

I have to say that in my earlier posts I was still thinking in $$... if the MW is increased (to a living wage) for shop workers ,cleaners etc I will be happy.

I can understand the logic behind people losing incentive if there is nothing to aim for but ...those that want even more will have to aim even higher!

MW workers are so valuable,that they are almost invisible...this thread proves that.

My situation could improve,I normally get things to improve in my life this will be no exception.

I count my blessings because I am able to see social diversityeven in my own family and I make and base my assumptions on that.

That's an interesting last point you make joy. I have two SIL (Dh's sisters) who are close in age, similar intelligence and brought up in the same environment , same schooling etc
Now they are in their 40s , one is considerably more settled , happy and successful than the other- not because one has had better life chances but because one has made better life CHOICES

Yes, that is interesting Janey.:)

My DH is a twin, it is interesting to see how things have worked out for them (in their 50's)

They have taken very different paths ,despite the same background.

usualsuspect - "of course it relies on one person being poor to make another one rich "

How does it?

Take a Premier League footballer being paid £1m per annum, for example. How does his being paid so much make someone else poorer? If he's paid £1m, he pays over £500k in tax and NI and his employer pays a load more, too.

Let's pay him £100k instead (and lose nearly £600k of employer/employee taxes.) Where is that other money now? Has someone else now become richer?

Look, life's not fair.

The unfairness also enables people at the bottom to clamber up without qualifications but with the eagerness to succeed.

If life was totally fair we would have to have a very complex set of measures,

1. crap parents and education but managed 7 gsce's = 10 points
2. posh parents, public school, discriminated against for those reasons and any achievements are belittled = 0 points

and so on.....

going back to the OP who is pissed off that her tax credits are going to leave her badly off and can't find a job that enables her to do the school run! Well, if you want to, you can find a job that works with the school run and you are not a better parent for doing the school run than those that choose to work rather than take from others to fulfill your ideals.

"those that want even more will have to aim even higher!"

Yes. Which is why they go to the stress and expense of gaining higer qualifications and skills...

Joy - "I can understand the logic behind people losing incentive if there is nothing to aim for but ...those that want even more will have to aim even higher!"

That's an issue in itself. If you remove the 'supply and demand' element from low/mid level wages entirely, then you destroy the economy.

If those that want more have to aim 'even higher!', what happens to those who wanted to just aim a bit higher in the current system? You've left those people with no incentive.

OK, someone looking at a career as a surgeon isn't massively affected (except by the fact that ramant inflation has dramatically reduced the effect of their earnings) and may continue down that line to enjoy the salary, but what about someone who would have become, say, a software engineer? What do they aim for now? If they decide not to bother, there's an issue; productivity and hence GDP is affected.

What actually happens is that companies (or the public sector) still have to employ people in those positions, so they have to pay even more money for them to persuade them out of NMW jobs. Before long the new higher NMW (now paid to teachers, nurses, cleaners, etc) is killed by wage inflation and you're back to square one.

Except you're not because in fact by this point inflation (and hence BOE base rate) has meant that the country's products are unsaleable outside GB&I and so the deficit would cripple us.

It's really not good economics.

coco fine.

But Mr cleaner with no chance of improving his lot ,will just have to suck it up and always make lousy money?

shelly most people won't aim to be a cleaner/shop worker if they are cut out for other jobs ... will they?

Surely the social stigma is enough to put them off ...( thinking personally here)

Do people only want to work for high wages?

I thought some jobs were still classed as vocations?

Oh,well I am still a lone voice here...I do understand what those not in agreement with me (all of you ) are saying however, and I will read back and see if I can learn something.

If the cleaner (again!) wants to improve his lot he must take personal responsibilty.

He could try rising to superviser levels, setting his own cleaning company, changing careers... the list goes on.

If someone really wants to change they cannot just expect it to fall into their lap- just like the rest of society who work towards improvement. Some of the teachers would have been former cleaners you know....

Shellyboobs speaks absolute sense. It really is economics as the bottom line here.

"Do people only want to work for high wages?"

Not only, but mostly.

You're totally disregarding the workloads and stresses that people go through to get to their desired position. Not many would start off with only the thought of money, but it's a HUGE factor when you're killing yourself with work/study/stress to get there. Looking up from the pit of your despair while trying to better yourself (many go through this, I'm sure) to see that an unskilled cleaner is earning the same salary you're aiming for would be soul destroying.

Taking myself as an example, I'd openly admit I'm very well paid and hence what someone else is paid would have little influence over my choices of career now. However, when I started out I wasn't so well paid. I studied for 6 years part-time after A-levels to get a BSc (Hons) and then a further 2 years for professional qualifications.

The relevance of this is that even after all that, I spent years working for a lower salary than you're suggesting a cleaner should be paid. If I'd have known that 10 years of education after the compulsory period would still have left no no better off than a cleaner, it genuinely would have affected my choices because there was no guarantee (in fact, little hope in my mind) that I'd get to where I am now. So why bother trying?

Not every career is a vocation. I admire people who follow their chosen path regardless of the pay, but that's not the norm.

Oh, cocoflower...the cleaner! must take personal responsibility

I will make sure they all get that memo to ensure that they all take action straightaway!

Who knew it was so simple...

My personal situation could play out like you have so helpfully instructed,not all cleaners! can.

shelly seriously ,well done.

I will ponder over these posts again.

But I still have to say ...your job sounds like it would pay a lot more than even my original quote of 15p/h?