Thoughts of IVF lotto

[welshbyrd]

I apologies if it has already been done, but what do we all think about it?

I guess this charity is trying to make some sort of point with this lottery.

IVF is a difficult area for the NHS to fund and having children is a lifestyle choice more than a health issue for the most part. I'm not dismissing the pain people feel by being unable to have children and I'm sure that often leads to other 'real' health issues, depression and even suicide. If I could had to choose between funding care for me in old age so that I could have a couple of extra years at the end of my life or having children I would without question choose to have children, I imagine most people would.

That doesn't change the fact that it is a lifestyle choice to have/want/need children. If we decide to fund IVF on the NHS then who gets it, should their be no limits? So single women, who may well be in just as much, in fact even more agony not to have children, not only do they not have children but they also don't have a partner to share the burden with. The elderly, long past their natural child bearing years? Even single/gay men some of whom I feel sure must feel the agony of childlessness, should they be provided with a surrogate? Life's not fair and we don't get everything we want, but that's just the way of the world.

Can we stop this "having children is a lifestyle choice" bollocks please drinking is a lifestyle choice, so is smoking, taking drugs, driving, getting a pet. Wanting a baby is far more primal than that. Please don't trivialise it.

oh, and its not a choice. If it was I would have at least a second child. there is no choice in it.

Is it a "lifestyle choice" to seek treatment for any other physical problem or part of your body which isn't working as intended?

Absolutely. Infertility takes all choice away from you. I would have loved to have that kind of 'lifestyle choice'. Just because many women and men can actually make a choice doesn't mean it's something we all have.

but of course the anti-ivf brigade would like to take that choice from the infertile a second time.

but of course the anti-ivf brigade would like to take that choice from the infertile a second time.

yep, because every cycle of ivf stops a cancer patient getting treatment you know!

Ok, so then would you say choosing not to have children is a lifestyle choice?

And BTW I don't mean to trivialize infertility in any way, the agony of being unable to have children is overwhelming. I was talking to a friend a while ago and we both agreed that we would prefer to have our children, and they die, then never to have had them, I really am not trivializing it.

But, I would like to bet very many couples/women who are struggling to have children have used contraception in the past, choosing (unknowingly) to put off having children until they fitted into their lifestyle. Again please don't take this as some sort of a criticism, it's really not, it's just what we all do.

Coming back to this lotto thing, I wonder can a single man win? He may be desperate for a child, a family, can they provide him with the help he needs to have a child?

In the same way that choosing not to use some other part of your body is a choice - if you have that choice. Perhaps some people choose not to use their eyes/ears/legs/brains! But if there's someone else who finds that part of their body doesn't work, and desperately wishes for some medical help to overcome this, then it's not up to those without such problems to dictate they shouldn't be helped.

"Ok, so then would you say choosing not to have children is a lifestyle choice?"

"Ok, so then would you say choosing not to have children is a lifestyle choice?"

If you are having sex, yes.
we could always take all contraception away from the sexually active, save the NHS shitloads of money on providing contaceptives and then take the choise to be childless away from everyone who is sexually active. Mind you - I am guessing abortion rates would rise.

I wasn't using contraception for many years. I actually went back onto the pill when I got together with my new husband as I didn't want to rush into getting pregnant immediately. When we did decide the time was right (only a few months later) I came off the pill and tried for years.

choice

sorry, that should be tried for 2 years befor having Ivf.

I hate this lifestyle choice stuff. It always comes from those who've never experienced difficulties trying to have a baby.

My womb doesn't work, I did not choose that, it just didn't form properly when I was in my mothers womb. I need NHS resources to have it fixed to give us a chance of having child. Yet so many would want me nit to have that because I'm taking away NHS resources from those that really need it. I wonder if those that think that way would consider having one less child to also save NHS resources, you know, birth, childhood illnesses etc. It's a lifestyle choice after all.

As to the lottery yes I would buy a ticket. By the time I've had the surgery I need and then had 6 months ttc and infertility investigations I'll be over 40 so outside the NHS IVF criteria.

dueling is right. you can choose not to have children. that is a choice. but you cant choose to have them. when you decide "I want to have a baby" you dont get one. that particular choice doesnt exist.

"I hate this lifestyle choice stuff. It always comes from those who've never experienced difficulties trying to have a baby."

Is that aimed at me? If it is then you're wrong.

My point about lifestyle choice is that imo IVF is not healthcare, if you think it is would you also describe sperm donation or surrogacy or even adoption as healthcare? I'm sure all of these methods of having a child can cure the agony of childlessness. IVF is done to make people happy and make dreams come true, I know it can also cure depression and remove a black cloud casting a shadow over a person, even a family's, whole life. In the same we that conceiving a baby by any other way is not healthcare.

I think as a society we seem to have shifted and now see having a baby as a right instead of a privilege.

Sorry privilege isn't really the right word, I just can't think of the right one.

The 'right' to have a baby is even enshrined in law, the right to 'family life'.

but its remedying a disorder. your body has a function, and it is failing to do that function. IF is also often symptomatic of other serious health problems, like PCOS, thyroid problems, diabetes, lupus. it is a healthcare issue, just because it wont actually kill you if untreated, doesn't make it any less worthy of treatment.

IVF is a medical treatment not some frilly frou-frou. And it's a serious medical treatment.

The need to reproduce isn't a lifestyle choice, it's far more evolutionary than that. We are animals after all and we are programmed to reproduce. Our hormones make us horny as the time we are more likely to conceive.

We often hear about how men need to 'sow their seed' etc and that seems to be quite acceptable, but not so when it comes to women having a basic need to reproduce.

To say it's a lifestyle choice I think trivialises it. If it really is a lifestyle choice then why do so many people all choose the same choice?

Was wondering when the 'children are a privilege' trite clap trap was going to come along.

No one's mentioned God yet.

Add you cliche here ........

"Was wondering when the 'children are a privilege' trite clap trap was going to come along."

So do you think it is a right then?

overpopulation.

adopt.

left it too late.

natural selection.

pick and mix babies.

Sperm donation and surrogacy - yes
Adoption - no, because anyone can apply to adopt, fertile or not.

"would you also describe sperm donation or surrogacy or even adoption as healthcare?"

I am in two minds about the lottery as it does feel a little wrong (although less so if all the profit goes to charity), but will give couples the chance of IVF when their PCT and financial circumstances dont even give them that chance.

I had seven IVF attempts (two on the NHS - evil me) before being amazingly lucky to get my DD. Obviously, we paid out a lot of money that was very hard to find for the other five times and think I am very fortunate to have had that choice and financial support from my parents, so if the lottery gives that choice to others I have to support it.

Anyone who has IVF in this country (and indeed most of Europe) will have welfare of the child criteria to pass before treatment (unlike those who conceive naturally of course). Certain clinics also have criteria which people will have to pass before getting treatment.

I do think its terribly hypocritical of people who had their midwife and birth care on the NHS (presumably after they had made the lifestyle choice to get pregnant) to then say fertility treatment should not be allowed. Have no idea what a c-section for example, costs, but shouldnt imagine its very cheap. As for the 'just adopt' brigade, not worth responding to.